I think you're conflating ethics with social norms just a tad.

Well, define ethics.

It's just a social norm in my view.

Being nice n sheeit?

Not hurting others.

Caring for other people.

So where has humanity done that?

Fucking never.

All the time. But there are always the amoral and the immoral.

Always predators among us.

Predators and parasites.

I'm afraid it's not the exception.

@discordian#3213 You should note, that humanity has been sentient for (Roughly) 50K years.

But what I mean is that a bundle of pre-wired responses that evolved to allow small packs of humans to better survive together, while useful, can't be held as some sort of supreme ethics all humans have to bow down to

Yeah, depending how you define sentient it could go back much further.

I am speaking about homosapiens, the ones that roam the earth now.

Even australopithecines were capable of at least rudimentary morality though.

So it's been with us as long as we were Homo sapiens, wherever exactly that line is drawn.

Million of years.

>capable of at least rudimentary morality though
>ethics
Fuck off with your 'ought to' shit

That is really pushing it however, since apes in todays age are capable of using stick and stone tools.

And do apes have sentience?

It's arguable.

Evolution's a slow thing.

Very step by step.

(Though most likely less efficently and practically than the pre human apes)

@Deleted User Fuck off with your there is no morality shit.

Yeah exactly.

What if due to environmental circumstances, the best way for humanity to survive was brutal gang rapes (ala dolphins) and our pre-wired brains evolved to make it into genetic memory? According to people that rely on "gut feeling" that would become something completely normal

Yes it would.

We can't trust gut feeling for a good ethical philosophy

@discordian#3213 Morality is just a modern invention. Like I keep saying. You're just using the idea retroactively.

Gorillas especially have shown that they can learn to read and communicate, however they can only do it through sign language as their vocal cords are unable to produce words comparable to human language.

Idk man gangrapes sound pretty unpleasant

Gorillas have also shown that they can care for kittens.

And there's nothing modern about morality. That's ridiculous. I mean fuck, you called me pastor earlier. What source do pastor's usually use?

@discordian#3213 Well pretty much any animal can care for another species, that has been shown in cat's, dogs, and even tigers.

I mean I know the OT wasn't written down till Babylon in the 6th Century BC, but it was passed down orally before that.

@discordian#3213 Pastors say the same thing as you do. 'Use the feels, Luke'. And yet there is no material evidence that such a thing exists or should be followed. Every creature hungers, but not every creature is 'moral'.

Nonetheless it's useful to use it as a basis for action.
Regarding "gut feelings", all systems of logic are also built on them.

@Deleted User Most animals don't care for their young at all. It is human bias to notice that some do.