That is really pushing it however, since apes in todays age are capable of using stick and stone tools.

And do apes have sentience?

It's arguable.

Evolution's a slow thing.

Very step by step.

(Though most likely less efficently and practically than the pre human apes)

@Deleted User Fuck off with your there is no morality shit.

Yeah exactly.

What if due to environmental circumstances, the best way for humanity to survive was brutal gang rapes (ala dolphins) and our pre-wired brains evolved to make it into genetic memory? According to people that rely on "gut feeling" that would become something completely normal

Yes it would.

We can't trust gut feeling for a good ethical philosophy

@discordian#3213 Morality is just a modern invention. Like I keep saying. You're just using the idea retroactively.

Gorillas especially have shown that they can learn to read and communicate, however they can only do it through sign language as their vocal cords are unable to produce words comparable to human language.

Idk man gangrapes sound pretty unpleasant

Gorillas have also shown that they can care for kittens.

And there's nothing modern about morality. That's ridiculous. I mean fuck, you called me pastor earlier. What source do pastor's usually use?

@discordian#3213 Well pretty much any animal can care for another species, that has been shown in cat's, dogs, and even tigers.

I mean I know the OT wasn't written down till Babylon in the 6th Century BC, but it was passed down orally before that.

@discordian#3213 Pastors say the same thing as you do. 'Use the feels, Luke'. And yet there is no material evidence that such a thing exists or should be followed. Every creature hungers, but not every creature is 'moral'.

Nonetheless it's useful to use it as a basis for action.
Regarding "gut feelings", all systems of logic are also built on them.

@Deleted User Most animals don't care for their young at all. It is human bias to notice that some do.

>use the feels
What a shit pastor

Prots strike again

The 8 axioms that are the foundation of regular mathematics, for example. Prove them to me without using your feels.

READ AQUINAS

No seriously though. Y'all are using logic here, right? Anyone know the foundational axioms of logic?

It's stuff like "A = A, for all A."

Now prove that to me without using your fee-fees.

Which logic? Aristotlean or?

@Deleted User Yet for humans, it is instinct to care for their young because they are unable to fend for themselves in a natural environment at a very young age, and are very susceptible to disease, and infection.

Just the regular kind of logic. The same kind underlying pretty much all of math.

When people *don't* use these basic axioms, things get wacky.

@Deleted User Yes, exactly. But this is uncommon in animal kingdom.

If A = B and B = C, then A = C.

Prove that to me without your fee-fees.

@Deleted User That's what makes humans and most species of apes unique.

>regular logic
>doesn't know the difference between philosophy and maths

(In terms of caring for their young)

The fucking Peano axioms then. I think I explained myself pretty well but if you're gonna get nitpicky.

Expalin the Peano axioms without resorting to gut feeling.

Read Kant.