Message from @Ned Kelly

Discord ID: 599713059153379359


2019-07-13 21:00:26 UTC  

But beyond that, most of the followers came because of incompetence within the church

2019-07-13 21:03:06 UTC  

@lordeguilherme I'm into theology

2019-07-13 21:03:11 UTC  

Orthodox theology specifically

2019-07-13 21:03:16 UTC  

But I'm into Christian theology

2019-07-13 21:03:58 UTC  

Also theology did in fact have an effect on the Protestant reformation

2019-07-13 21:04:12 UTC  

It's wrong to say it was just political

2019-07-13 21:06:48 UTC  

Its not all political lol, but most nobles sided with the church due to their lack of influence in their politics

2019-07-13 21:07:05 UTC  

Martin Luther came up with the idea of "Sola Fide" and "Sola Scriptura." Sola Fide basically means salvation by faith alone. Sola Scriptura denies the veneration of saints and says the word of Christ only comes from the Bible

2019-07-13 21:07:06 UTC  

The average peasant wasnt converted because of deep theological debate

2019-07-13 21:07:41 UTC  

Yes but Luther did come up with new theological ideas

2019-07-13 21:08:54 UTC  

I would say they were more reformed in a sense, since the original church had followed closely to what he was trying to create with his new branch

2019-07-13 21:22:44 UTC  

woah

2019-07-13 21:22:47 UTC  

Theology?

2019-07-13 21:23:03 UTC  

I’m into Buddhist Theology if that’s cool

2019-07-13 21:23:06 UTC  

Lol no Luther made up shit

2019-07-13 21:23:11 UTC  

Lutheranism spread because of the Hundred Years' War resulting in some secularism, and also because the Church didn't realize the damage it'd do to society so they were too scared to execute him before he caused any trouble:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Years%27_War

Luther came up with sola scriptura, but sola fide is a Calvinist thing. Calvinism does derive from Lutheranism though.

Protestants didn't reform anything, they actively made up their own doctrine and broke off from the Catholics. And if you look at Luther's own writings, you can see that the idea that the Lutherans were protesting corruption in the Church is one that was made up long after his time, because he wasn't complaining about any of that (because the Church wasn't actually corrupt). Luther's complaint was that he didn't believe in free will.

2019-07-13 21:24:04 UTC  

What?

2019-07-13 21:24:26 UTC  

The 100 years war involved France, Burgundy, Iberia, and England

2019-07-13 21:24:34 UTC  

Never any parts of Protestantism

2019-07-13 21:25:11 UTC  

Those were the states involved in the war itself, but it affected the rest of Christendom as well.

2019-07-13 21:25:35 UTC  

How?

2019-07-13 21:25:52 UTC  

The War of the Roses impacted it more

2019-07-13 21:26:32 UTC  

Because the various kingdoms throughout Christendom were all united due to the way their governments were structured. The kings only ruled over each respective one, but the Church ruled over all of them by ruling over each king.

2019-07-13 21:27:37 UTC  

Besides, even if the Church was corrupt and Luther wanted to fix it, all he had to do was report it to the offending clergy's higher-ups in the hierarchy and thus get them expelled. The fact that he didn't do that showed that he clearly had something else in mind, as his own writings show.

2019-07-13 21:27:54 UTC  

I really hate defending Luther

2019-07-13 21:28:01 UTC  

But he “attempted” to reform the church

2019-07-13 21:28:08 UTC  

No he didn't.

2019-07-13 21:28:09 UTC  

Idk why you deny the church was corrupt at the time

2019-07-13 21:28:23 UTC  

Simony is not a good reputation to have

2019-07-13 21:28:32 UTC  

Because it wasn't. I've seen his own writings before.

2019-07-13 21:28:39 UTC  

Nepotism is a horrible thing in general

2019-07-13 21:28:41 UTC  

He never talked about the Church being corrupt.

2019-07-13 21:29:01 UTC  

He complained about how he thought that free will is a fairy tale.

2019-07-13 21:29:17 UTC  

He started a revolution.

2019-07-13 21:29:25 UTC  

That was his later works I thought

2019-07-13 21:30:00 UTC  

He never had any goal of reforming the Church because there was nothing to reform in the first place. He wanted to weaken the Church and form his own church, which is exactly what he did.

2019-07-13 21:30:12 UTC  

In his paper, De servo arbitrio (On the Bondage of the Will), Luther considered that "the dogma of free will" has no foundation in scripture and, therefore, has to be "completely abandoned and counted amongst fairy tales". In a letter to Erasmus of Rotterdam, Luther praises Erasmus for not afflicting him "with those strange things about the papacy, Purgatory, indulgences, and the like," but instead "detecting the CARDINAL POINT," and "attacking the MAIN THING itself." What is the "main thing" that Luther is talking about? It is Luther’s opinion "that free will is a pure lie."

2019-07-13 21:30:45 UTC  

He started it because he generally wanted to reform the church, he only attempted to create another church after the diet of Worms

2019-07-13 21:31:01 UTC  

Mainly because he pope excommunicated the bastard

2019-07-13 21:31:21 UTC  

Another reformations happened before him but are mostly not talked about at all anymore

2019-07-13 21:31:35 UTC  

Which had most justification than he could ever