Message from @Nemets
Discord ID: 528399246144045077
Ok. Ivan was the first Czar, so he was of Viking decent? I though Ivan was the beginning of a new era in Russian rule and culture...?
I've got some learning to do.
russians are a mixture of a lot of different peoples, just like americans
slavs are the main group, but they have a lot of finnic and ugrian ancestry, with a sprinkling of tatar and german
That's my very elementary understanding. I was just under the impression Ivan was the beginning and not the end of an era
in a lot of ways he was
he was both...?
yeah
can you calrify?
oh
probably a lot to clarify, haha
don't mean to ask for a history lesson haha
no problem
after mongols destroyed kiev and a lot of principalities, base of russian civilization shifted north of the forest line to places where nomadic hordes were less capable of attacking
moscow was a very loyal servant of the mongols, and gained a lot in power and wealth relatively during that time
by the 15th century, the mongols were destroying themselves through fighting between descendants of genghis khan and new warlords
so moscow was able to retake a lot of territory that had been lost
a lot of the various principalities had their own identities at that time, and regularly rebelled against moscow
Ivan IV is pretty famous for sacking novgorod, a major city that had its own identity, and he played an even larger role in his grandfather Ivan III in promoting russian identity in the territories he controlled
as time went on, the various principalities gradually lost their identities and became russians
however certain places like galicia and volhynia remained outside of russian control until 1945, and never adopted a russian identity, and instead kept their old identities as part of the old principalities. These identities became the modern ukrainian identity
so Ivan IV was part of a broader trend of centralization and russification that continued until 1917, but was exceptionally good at it
but he was still part of the old system in a lot of ways
hope that makes sense
Good introduction for sure. Let me know what you think of the book. Saw a cheap version (used) on amazon, how much did you pay? And how did you stumble on or rather settle on this book? Via interweb wormhole?
I think I was searching for medieval russian history on Amazon
it was $38 for kindle edition iirc
found a cheap used paperback. let me know how you like it. i'll probably pick it up regardless.
will do
@Mick I read a pretty good synthesis of Russian history from the Kievan Rus all the way to Putin a couple years ago. Next time I’m near it, I’ll send you a pic of the cover. I read it with almost now background info though, so if you know a lot about Russian history, you might not be a big fan
I don't know much at all really. Very basic fun fact level.
So yeah, if you can recall or find the book and let me know, that'd be great.
this medieval russia book is pretty good so far
Gonna buy it in a batch of books soon here probably. Hopefully @Tron can remember what book he's talking about so I can get that too.
https://www.counter-currents.com/2018/12/beyond-the-alt-right-toward-a-new-nationalism/
Everybody needs to read this essay
@Tron Greg was really on fire the last half of 2018. Looking forward to his new collection.
Almost finished with The Strange Death of Europe audiobook. It was great. starting on Ship of Fools.
might have sounded better with "identitarian" than "white nationalist", but you get the point
@Jacob that page from the white nationalist manifesto?
yes