Message from @ConservativeCalvinist

Discord ID: 817524787659276329


2021-03-05 20:16:27 UTC  

Killing people isn’t always wrong though. While I would say it’s almost always a tragedy there are many cases where killing people is acceptable or needed

2021-03-05 20:17:37 UTC  

Even in Ecclesiastes 3 we see that there is a time even for war

2021-03-05 20:19:40 UTC  

For intent of my argument, they are not talking about self defence. They beleive that killing people is perfectly justified and okay.

2021-03-05 20:57:24 UTC  

So James 2:24 means nothing?

2021-03-05 21:10:49 UTC  

I would also like to mention that there have been “religious people” that weren’t all that good of people and used their faith to defend their beliefs and their acts

2021-03-05 21:12:29 UTC  

Those are people who use their "faith" purely as a crutch to justify themselves, ans morally browbeat others. At all other times you will never see them claiming to be so faithful, not that they acted out anything proper in the first place

2021-03-05 21:16:41 UTC  

That’s not always true

2021-03-05 21:17:18 UTC  

Your more so describing someone like Hitler, claimed to be Christian but secretly slandered them

2021-03-05 21:18:15 UTC  

There are also plenty of moral busybodies in the regular world...

2021-03-05 21:26:24 UTC  

What about the Spanish Inquisition? They seemed awfully religious. They thought what they were doing was for the betterment of the Church. Or literally any of the Popes that had sex or did things against the church. Or those in the early church who taught things contrary to what the church taught. All religious and faithful, but most people don’t considered them as good people

2021-03-05 21:51:15 UTC  

James 2:24 is talking about works being evidence of saving faith.

2021-03-05 21:57:38 UTC  

How so? They talk about faith and acts as two different things. “You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.” That doesn’t seem to explain acts working on faith.

2021-03-05 22:04:00 UTC  

But your interpretation of James 2:24 would seem to contradict passages such as Ephesians 2:8-9.

2021-03-05 22:04:24 UTC  

And that would be?

2021-03-05 22:05:39 UTC  

Ephesians 2:8-10 2:8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; 2:9 it is not from works, so that no one can boast. 2:10 For we are his workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works that God prepared beforehand so we may do them.

2021-03-05 22:16:18 UTC  

Well if we’re going to interpret Bible passages, the “it is not from works” could mean the grace God have does not come from works. And the “so that no come an boast” could be taking about the Pharisees. They were the ones who were fasting but showing their pain (which Jesus stated that you should not do). Plus, the Bible never states that acts are not important nor helpful. It’s states that you are given grace through your faith. And if they work against one another, why do they exist together. Why be apart of the Bible if one is lie and one is truth? Does this suggest the Bible is nonsense or possibly not fully the word of God?

2021-03-05 22:28:28 UTC  

You mean the Catholic spanish church, hunting down any of the other churches they deemed unworthy?

2021-03-05 22:28:46 UTC  

The question is how are we saved faith or works, not whether or not you should do good works. verse 10 of Ephesians 2 says we are Gods workmanship and created for good works.

2021-03-05 22:29:48 UTC  

Yes

2021-03-05 22:31:16 UTC  

"For we are his workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works that God prepared beforehand so we may do them."

2021-03-05 22:31:38 UTC  

Killing people is not wrong if the people being killed are evildoers

2021-03-05 22:32:14 UTC  

What about Mercy

2021-03-05 22:32:19 UTC  

Can they not change?

2021-03-05 22:33:18 UTC  

Jesus did not simply kill the Pharisees

2021-03-05 22:33:19 UTC  

They could, possibly, but they still deserve punishment

2021-03-05 22:33:34 UTC  

Punishment, not always death

2021-03-05 22:33:34 UTC  

Thats not the issue. Everyone can change. But these are people who hold to those beleifs.

2021-03-05 22:33:35 UTC  

Protestants and Jews were the main target during the Spanish inquisition.

2021-03-05 22:33:52 UTC  

"Vengence is mine alone, says the lord"

2021-03-05 22:34:06 UTC  

But throughout the Bible God commands the Israelites to kill evildoers

2021-03-05 22:34:10 UTC  

We are not to kill because they are deserving

2021-03-05 22:34:24 UTC  

Justice and vengeance are two very different things

2021-03-05 22:34:33 UTC  

I'm just trying to say that killing can be wrong and can be right in some instances

2021-03-05 22:34:34 UTC  

I’m not saying go around killing people

2021-03-05 22:34:45 UTC  

That is actually a very fair argument.

2021-03-05 22:34:47 UTC  

But I do believe that murderers should be executed

2021-03-05 22:34:50 UTC  

5th commandment: Thou shalt not kill. Only exception is self defense

2021-03-05 22:35:16 UTC  

God commanded the Israelites to kill in justice countless times through the Bible

2021-03-05 22:35:17 UTC  

The more extreme ones

2021-03-05 22:35:24 UTC  

Or in a situation of protecting someone.

2021-03-05 22:35:25 UTC  

Ones that killed a lot