or what would be his nature

well what goes beyond time

or what is the ruler of time, the cage that makes up our world

that without which time wouldn't have the structure

I'm just wondering how you know that the morals god gave are actually good if you don't think you could distinguish good morals from bad without god

Like he could have just given you non-ideal morals and you'd never know

You have to know what God is if you want to talk about the theological understanding of good and evil

But we don't really know what God is

Because everything would emerge from God's voice and we would be his mirror image

Well what goes beyond time

or what is that which rules from the beginning to the end of it (a concept, not a being)

the most basic event is A => B

what does this event require

`Would those virtues be good if God hadn't demonstrated that they were good?`
maybe, but how would we know if not for god?

in the christcuck narrative, we have god to thank for our moral senses, us being made in god's image and all that

well what is God

"christcuck" is not an argument, not every Christian is a pope licking black people's shoes

kek

So let's say you're right and either logic or theology can prove everything god says is true

the pope is evil, the vatican has always been evil

no give me an answer to what is actually God

otherwise you'll just reject everything as nonsense

I can't tell you what God is because I don't believe in a god

No give me an answer as to which principle goes beyond time

I don't care about your belief

Your faith doesn't matter whatsoever

Time being linear could even just be a limit of our perception. The nature of the universe could trancend time and we wouldn't know

ye but what transcends time

Inherent principles of matter and energy

one thing we would know and which would be legitimate through circular reasoning

logic/logos

I don't agree with anything being legitimate through circular reasoning

how is logic legitimate other than through logic

if you do not agree with logic, you're putting your own worldview outside of it

Logic isn't legitimate, it's useful. You need to make base assumptions about the universe to assume it is delivering something approximating truth

Like assuming that what we gather with our senses is real

I think I should just tell my mum that a friend has invited me to a BBQ in a Manchester. That's the only option that would not end with my mum tearing me a new asshole.

We can't prove that, but our logic systems hinge on it when we make claims about the world around us

anyhow back to the original discussion
i certainly can see how one would think that the nonreligious aren't moral, if you were

and vice versa actually, lot of nonreligious think that religious people are immoral

so truth and logic do not exist, it's just a tool