@meglide Perfect, I can to some extent explain that. You have something called "secondary deaths".

Thats according to your link?

I will def. Look into that. Caude that would idd say a lot

Not if you checked with previous years...

@meglide you have people dying that would normally survive because 1) the fear going to the hospital, 2) the hospital is stretch beyond capacity.

Yet i can understand that they have to make a determination either way

Expanding capacity should have been part of the plan. Not here in belgium though

@meglide even here, where we have not passed 80% capacity, you already see secondary and tertiary deaths.

@andrasol that is political question. Expanding capacity strains the exconomy.

One ICU bed is extremely expensive, as you have to train personell, and remove that personell from other functions. Those functions then go down, and you get he secondary deaths again.

Shutting it down completly, paying out insane money to those now shuttered does more so

Health-services is a complicated web

We now have the 2nd largest shortage in europe

exactly, the excess deaths are about 10 percent of the total but hospitals are run with little to no excess capacity thus even small increases in utilizations causes massive disruptions in care

In a socialised healthcare system

With 60% + taxes for buss. Owners

@meglide I can also offer some insights from the pathology department. There ARE young people dying from this. It is just rare.

But that may be more bad politics than it is corona itself.

That contributes to total deaths in populus.

Yet if im not mistaken, the surpluss in deaths is all above average life exp. Isent it?

@andrasol there is no way for western politicians to manage this. Its impossible. Either the bodies pile up, or the economy crashes. They are currently trying to balance it. I am glad it isnt me. I could not do that.

In europe we have near the harshest lockdowns and measures

@andrasol no, you have cohorts of younger people dying. From autoimmune response to the virus.

Yet an openish country like sweden does better if barely so

we had the two first deaths in december, both below 30.

Just like the netherlands... it does better

I had the 'Vid btw

these are italian, and correspond pretty well to what has been seen here before the last mutation.

Well yes and no. Italy made some horendous mistakes regarding the elderly

Esp. In rural areas

yeah, there are no good choices in this, just less bad ones and you won't know which are less bad until much later ...

(note that in the table, the author has made a translation error. They mean CFR, not IFR)

Just as in belgium most elderly deaths came from nursing houses

And the mismanagment of them (gov. Statement btw)

@meglide well, the question becomes, do you have a lesser chance of being re-elected if people see body bags, or if people loose their jobs?

hard to predict.

Jobs according to the WOF

And other inst.

Again, we might be mistaken at the basis that we are talking about hugely differing populations and areas

@meglide Most epidemiologists know what the medical sound thing to do is, based on the spread pattern. But those measures will kill the economy and the psyche of the population.

so it becomes a political issue.