Shutting it down completly, paying out insane money to those now shuttered does more so

Health-services is a complicated web

We now have the 2nd largest shortage in europe

exactly, the excess deaths are about 10 percent of the total but hospitals are run with little to no excess capacity thus even small increases in utilizations causes massive disruptions in care

In a socialised healthcare system

With 60% + taxes for buss. Owners

@meglide I can also offer some insights from the pathology department. There ARE young people dying from this. It is just rare.

But that may be more bad politics than it is corona itself.

That contributes to total deaths in populus.

Yet if im not mistaken, the surpluss in deaths is all above average life exp. Isent it?

@andrasol there is no way for western politicians to manage this. Its impossible. Either the bodies pile up, or the economy crashes. They are currently trying to balance it. I am glad it isnt me. I could not do that.

In europe we have near the harshest lockdowns and measures

@andrasol no, you have cohorts of younger people dying. From autoimmune response to the virus.

Yet an openish country like sweden does better if barely so

we had the two first deaths in december, both below 30.

Just like the netherlands... it does better

I had the 'Vid btw

these are italian, and correspond pretty well to what has been seen here before the last mutation.

Well yes and no. Italy made some horendous mistakes regarding the elderly

Esp. In rural areas

yeah, there are no good choices in this, just less bad ones and you won't know which are less bad until much later ...

(note that in the table, the author has made a translation error. They mean CFR, not IFR)

Just as in belgium most elderly deaths came from nursing houses

And the mismanagment of them (gov. Statement btw)

@meglide well, the question becomes, do you have a lesser chance of being re-elected if people see body bags, or if people loose their jobs?

hard to predict.

Jobs according to the WOF

And other inst.

Again, we might be mistaken at the basis that we are talking about hugely differing populations and areas

@meglide Most epidemiologists know what the medical sound thing to do is, based on the spread pattern. But those measures will kill the economy and the psyche of the population.

so it becomes a political issue.

@andrasol indeed. Populations can not be compared here without some thought. Asians function better in isolation, caucausians have lower mortality rates.

There is a diff. Between what epid. Think is sound.

And what human rights allow

and those are just the immediate consequences ... then there are the long term consequences of increased poverty, etc. ... long term consequences of delayed medical treatment ... long term consequences of being infected by the virus ... list goes on and on

agreed

add to that now, the long term effect of T-cell modulation (vaccines), which will be horrible....

"must be expected to be" I mean.

I cant see the western world surviving this in its current state.

I note how everyone is hanging on "till the vaccines get here".

That will lead no massive disappointment.