I asked them to make Covid a separate channel but for now this channel seems to be a catch all

Still thats no reason to muddy up this chat. Start one and link it here?

@andrasol, you just advanced to level 3!

@meglide well, exactly. When you stand in the pathology department you also see that this is extraordinary. But it isnt creating the mortlity rate the hysterics think.

a death is a death, a dead body is a dead body ... unless you're saying they are fudging the numbers then I don't see your point

@meglide This was normally not a problem, because Cause of death in a NYHA class IV dying in a flu epidemic would be: Primary: Flu, Secondary: Heart Failure.

But then there was no politics involved.

Now you are in a situation where the disease control centers have opinions on these classifications, and in some instances, politicians.

They are here. By counting all flu and ljng disseases, even without corona test as corona cases.

And that is again, all documented on our national website for covid data

This my differ in other countries though. Yet the document on how to count was issued by the who... so it should not

I remember a lady that was managing data and created a program in Florida got fired by gov. Desantis. Cuse the covid numbers were to high.

the main point is that the excess deaths this year are a once in 100 year type of event, so if it's not Covid-19 you got an even greater problem of what the heck is it?

@andrasol which makes sense, as there is no flu in the population at the moment and corona tests does not always have a high sensitivity. You have something called a "clinical diagnosis" which is some times more specific than the tests. These are complicated issues. Its why medschool is 6 years.

Thats fair

@meglide Perfect, I can to some extent explain that. You have something called "secondary deaths".

Thats according to your link?

I will def. Look into that. Caude that would idd say a lot

Not if you checked with previous years...

@meglide you have people dying that would normally survive because 1) the fear going to the hospital, 2) the hospital is stretch beyond capacity.

Yet i can understand that they have to make a determination either way

Expanding capacity should have been part of the plan. Not here in belgium though

@meglide even here, where we have not passed 80% capacity, you already see secondary and tertiary deaths.

@andrasol that is political question. Expanding capacity strains the exconomy.

One ICU bed is extremely expensive, as you have to train personell, and remove that personell from other functions. Those functions then go down, and you get he secondary deaths again.

Shutting it down completly, paying out insane money to those now shuttered does more so

Health-services is a complicated web

We now have the 2nd largest shortage in europe

exactly, the excess deaths are about 10 percent of the total but hospitals are run with little to no excess capacity thus even small increases in utilizations causes massive disruptions in care

In a socialised healthcare system

With 60% + taxes for buss. Owners

@meglide I can also offer some insights from the pathology department. There ARE young people dying from this. It is just rare.

But that may be more bad politics than it is corona itself.

That contributes to total deaths in populus.

Yet if im not mistaken, the surpluss in deaths is all above average life exp. Isent it?

@andrasol there is no way for western politicians to manage this. Its impossible. Either the bodies pile up, or the economy crashes. They are currently trying to balance it. I am glad it isnt me. I could not do that.

In europe we have near the harshest lockdowns and measures

@andrasol no, you have cohorts of younger people dying. From autoimmune response to the virus.

Yet an openish country like sweden does better if barely so

we had the two first deaths in december, both below 30.

Just like the netherlands... it does better

I had the 'Vid btw