That's for 2020 and past elections.

So it’s more of a regularity than a irregularity as far as elections go? @TW20

@JonasRobert I am not asking you to take my word for anything. We have court records now. We have rulings of judges that make it clear the "evidence" is crap.

Lots of people confuse evidence and proof. And I don't think you are... I think you understand the difference. But just because there are affidavits does not mean that evidence goes to prove the claim.

If I give an affidavit that I went to polling place X and I was treated poorly and I felt abused and I am just as sure as I can possible be that they threw my vote away or somehow changed it - it is technically evidence. It however is NOT evidence that would go to prove my allegation of fraud.

I wasn't lying in my affidavit. All of it happen. And I may truly believe my vote didnt get counted. But nothing in that affidavit goes to PROVE my allegation.

And this is what the courts are telling us. Just read the opinion. They are online. The complaints are online, the affidavits are there, the responses are online and the judges rulings are there.

Don't believe me... that is fine. You don't know me. But why dare you refusing to believe these judges who have weighed the evidence and found it severely lacking... why not believe them?

Disagree. Show we were they are not doing their jobs. So far I think we pulled off a stellar election

Like mentioned, the election process checks have slowly gone casual, downhill.

Ok but why tho?

Or maybe they have gotten stronger, it’s possible this election was more secure than last years on a whole @TW20

@james j thats good a thing i support

paper ballots to audit results are a pretty good election check

I’m neutral on it just seems random

I also agree, the null hypothesis has to be that the election was fair. I think there are 2 broad categories of evidence. One is technical rule violations that took place. Like SOS changing election rules, poll watchers being kept at a distance, etc. I think there is a good argument to be made that these votes should be excluded regardless of any other evidence. On the issue of ***actual fraud***, I think the strongest evidence is simply the statistical anomalies combined with the irregular observations we saw. As one example, in GA they say they are going to stop counting ballots because a pipe burst. But it turns out there is no record of a repair person coming to fix the pipe. There is a text message describing the pipe burst as a "big over exaggeration"...then shortly after these abrupt pause of reporting ballot counts, suddenly Biden mounts a massive come back that defies all other trends we see around the country. Not to mention, we see similar occurrences in a handful of cities...an abrupt and unexplained pause, followed by a massive Biden surge. The places we observe this were only in the handful of places critical for Biden to win.

I could accept explaining away one or two such anomalies

@JonasRobert who made this masterplan.. for sure not Biden

but not as many as we saw. at some point, the burden should shift to the other side. which they could easily do by simply letting people come and audit the ballots and machines, but they refuse

@JonasRobert, you just advanced to level 5!

Theres the voting machine itself. If you do your research on it you can find the answers. It's a very hackable setup.

on top of that, there are witnesses claiming they saw problems w/ the ballots. but you asked for the "strongest" evidence

@JonasRobert you just said this "I also agree, the null hypothesis has to be that the election was fair. I think there are 2 broad categories of evidence. One is technical rule violations that took place. Like SOS changing election rules, poll watchers being kept at a distance, etc. I think there is a good argument to be made that these votes should be excluded regardless of any other evidence."

So what you are saying is your remedy to people complaining about the CoVid restrictions is to throw our the votes of citizens that did NOTHING wrong?

They followed the law. They cast their ballots as they were legally entitled to do. But because someone could not stand close enough to the poll workers those people's vote should not be counted?

Wow... ok. That is a working democracy... lol

Yes I realize this is a polarizing opinion, but I think the rules of the election must take priority over covid

I think lives take priority over someone claiming fraud with zero proof

And there is no basis is the law to do what you are asking

True

sure there is, votes are thrown out every year when rules are not followed

just from a legal point.... You are asking a court to assume that their was fraud simple because people were asked to stand back 6 feet. That is not how our justice system works... thank goodness

you are conflating the issues because here we are talking about ***a lot*** of votes

Individual votes found to be in violation are thrown out

Not huge batches or entire polling centers

never once happened

you just repeated exactly what I said

@JD~Jordan you must be new. Welcome to the discord.

Im not new to discord. New to this group

thanks... nice to be here

Robert went over the claim that these allegations are baseless last week

Agree - "lots"of votes

When individual votes are processed in a way that doesnt abide by the law, those votes are thrown out. This happens every election. What would be new would be to throw out ***so many*** votes. But the law doesn't change based on the sum total of votes.

There is a very real basis for skepticism with some of the votes cast in this election.

this is getting away from the "fraud" stuff though, more on the technical legal aspects

Whether or not it changes the out come is irrelevant

I agree that this should be the case. but in application we have real people deciding cases and social pressures are clearly a factor

No. I didnt. You are saying that because a polling place at the 6 feet rule in place all those ballots should be thrown out. Why? There is no specific law that requires they be within a certain distance.

BTW, I do agree its not ideal but we are in a pandemic.

The bigger issue is that you are suggesting we just assume that every single vote cast at one of these polling places that exercised the six feet rule be thrown out... not because you can establish fraud... but just because you don't think it was an ideal situation.

And that has never happened before.... nor should it ever.

We must assume that the ballots are valid. That is the starting point. If a voter did something to cause their ballot to be invalidated then yes.... those get disregarded every election. I am sure tens of thousands do. But that is because a specific ballot was found to have a problem.

We don't throw out every single vote cast at a polling place because a poll watcher didn't think they got to stand close enough.

That is nonsense.

@JonasRobert The election rules being changed in PA was a legal technicality caused by the PA GOP. They already had a election under those rules and told their citizens to vote in that manner. You can’t invalidate votes made by people in good faith (also this is not evidence of fraud) as far as standing at a distance that was rectified but still doesn’t meet the requirements to invalidate votes. There are official poll watchers and then there are off the street poll watchers. The official republican poll watchers were present the entire time

The GA rule changes again were initiated by the gop. And people voted in good faith, it’s almost like the democrats or Biden are being accused for things the GOP in those states did. Also the rule changes were such that it would not effect the election in a fraudulent way, this is the claim however and is so far unsupported that any fraud occurred.

As far as the statistical models go they can be torn down easily because the initial figures they are working off of are built on guess work and assumptions. I can link how can use their own model against them and prove that republicans cheated in this election.

As far as the overnight mail in votes. You have to remember that they are not allowed to start counting until the close of polls and that votes don’t instantly get counted and added to the tally online. First they are counted then they update the database to reflect the tallies and only then do they upload or online. So the counting of votes is distinct from the upload of votes online. The x axis on those graphs everyone points to are not real scaled representations of time.

We all knew about the red mirage when the walk in trump votes would be counted and the the primarily Biden votes would come in through the mail.