True

sure there is, votes are thrown out every year when rules are not followed

just from a legal point.... You are asking a court to assume that their was fraud simple because people were asked to stand back 6 feet. That is not how our justice system works... thank goodness

you are conflating the issues because here we are talking about ***a lot*** of votes

Individual votes found to be in violation are thrown out

Not huge batches or entire polling centers

never once happened

you just repeated exactly what I said

@JD~Jordan you must be new. Welcome to the discord.

Im not new to discord. New to this group

thanks... nice to be here

Robert went over the claim that these allegations are baseless last week

Agree - "lots"of votes

When individual votes are processed in a way that doesnt abide by the law, those votes are thrown out. This happens every election. What would be new would be to throw out ***so many*** votes. But the law doesn't change based on the sum total of votes.

There is a very real basis for skepticism with some of the votes cast in this election.

this is getting away from the "fraud" stuff though, more on the technical legal aspects

Whether or not it changes the out come is irrelevant

I agree that this should be the case. but in application we have real people deciding cases and social pressures are clearly a factor

No. I didnt. You are saying that because a polling place at the 6 feet rule in place all those ballots should be thrown out. Why? There is no specific law that requires they be within a certain distance.

BTW, I do agree its not ideal but we are in a pandemic.

The bigger issue is that you are suggesting we just assume that every single vote cast at one of these polling places that exercised the six feet rule be thrown out... not because you can establish fraud... but just because you don't think it was an ideal situation.

And that has never happened before.... nor should it ever.

We must assume that the ballots are valid. That is the starting point. If a voter did something to cause their ballot to be invalidated then yes.... those get disregarded every election. I am sure tens of thousands do. But that is because a specific ballot was found to have a problem.

We don't throw out every single vote cast at a polling place because a poll watcher didn't think they got to stand close enough.

That is nonsense.

@JonasRobert The election rules being changed in PA was a legal technicality caused by the PA GOP. They already had a election under those rules and told their citizens to vote in that manner. You can’t invalidate votes made by people in good faith (also this is not evidence of fraud) as far as standing at a distance that was rectified but still doesn’t meet the requirements to invalidate votes. There are official poll watchers and then there are off the street poll watchers. The official republican poll watchers were present the entire time

The GA rule changes again were initiated by the gop. And people voted in good faith, it’s almost like the democrats or Biden are being accused for things the GOP in those states did. Also the rule changes were such that it would not effect the election in a fraudulent way, this is the claim however and is so far unsupported that any fraud occurred.

As far as the statistical models go they can be torn down easily because the initial figures they are working off of are built on guess work and assumptions. I can link how can use their own model against them and prove that republicans cheated in this election.

As far as the overnight mail in votes. You have to remember that they are not allowed to start counting until the close of polls and that votes don’t instantly get counted and added to the tally online. First they are counted then they update the database to reflect the tallies and only then do they upload or online. So the counting of votes is distinct from the upload of votes online. The x axis on those graphs everyone points to are not real scaled representations of time.

We all knew about the red mirage when the walk in trump votes would be counted and the the primarily Biden votes would come in through the mail.

Absolutely. There is enormous pressure from both sides. I’m very glad I’m not in there shoes through all of this.

@JonasRobert and the pipe burst even if not a big deal precautions still need to be made to secure the ballots, it would be a cya kinda thing in that situation

The pandemic is used as an excuse. Not an excuse when they remove poll observers to 20 feet away from observing and not allowing them to walk about and view the monitor screens. That has occurred in many counties. Very rude partisan treatment.

I watched Dr. Linda Tarver's testimony and I have some concerns about what she said and the implications. Several times she claimed that 72% of Detroit's votes were suspect and that is just not true. 72% of their precincts were out of balance, but she never mentioned that the total number out of balance was only 441 ballots - she had to know this... Her biggest concern seemed to be because there is an obscure law in MI that prevents unbalanced precincts from being audited. When the lone Democrat on the panel asked how long she was concerned about this deficiency in the law, she said it was more than 8 years. And then when he asked her why the Republican controlled MI legislature had never tried to change the law, she deflected saying that the law didn't need to change, because the Dems were just too lazy to make it balance. When she tried to say that other Rep precincts just work harder to be in balance, she neglected to say that those Rep precincts had a fraction of the votes, which made it easier to balance... And she also forgot to mention that there were large Rep precincts that were just as out of balance as Detroit. She also failed to mention the level of effort involved with balancing a large precinct vs. for a small precinct. I do find the law about not being able to audit precincts that are out of balance bothersome, but due to the Reps not willing to change the law, it makes me wonder if something else is at play. All in all, I would have more respect for her testimony if she had been fairer in a representation of the facts.

That is your opinion. Excuse or not. Having them stand at a reasonable distance was not a violation of the law and even judges wrote in their orders it was fine.

It rendered their ability to observe null.

Some terms were changed by the GOP, yes. This isn't what I'm referring to though. The law on poll watchers having access to the ballots were never changed in the statutes, that was an administrative decision which violates the text & spirit of the law. The purpose of having the watchers there is so both sides can verify the validity of absentee ballots. Simply being inside of the room does not accomplish this. Because these absentee ballots were processed without both sides being able to verify the signatues, envelopes, etc, I think they should be thrown out, because they weren't processed according to what the laws require.

(Yes, even with binoculars there’s no way one could accurately observe each ballot.)

yes^^

@JonasRobert that was thrown out of court, poll watchers of both parties were present

I feel like that could be demonstrated really quickly lol. I’m not sure if those votes should be rendered invalid, but... these election officials enforcing this should get some heat.

I disagree. And so did the judges that heard those arguments.

Again, I have noted several times that is was not ideal. But Covid is real. Its not a left hoax. I know people who have died. Many poll workers and volunteers and they have a right to be protected.

Additionally, strictly from a legal standpoint, there is a significant state interest in protecting the health of theirs citizens.

There is no law that establishes the exact number of feet a person is to stand away.

There was no violation of the law.

To attempt to throw out the votes of millions of Americans on the assumption that something wrong happen because people were six fee away instead of two is asinine

The supervisors went against the counties policies for poll observers to do their job and that was to observe to make sure there was integrity. They were not given that opportunity. They were intimidated.

@JonasRobert trumps lawyers admitted this

admitted what?

oh sry I see

See my follow up msg lol

So you say. Ive seen no evidence of that

@JD~Jordan, you just advanced to level 7!