I know Talon believes they are still the fringiest of fringe and I respect that. It affects cities differently.

"normal" ... see that's the problem, this is the year of the "new normal" where new means NOT

Yes

Stuff like this...

Which sidenote I don't advocate, but also don't dismiss.

@meglide I wasn't trying to say I'm smarter than @dedkraken... I was simply trying to point out that predicting the future is fool's work... which is true, especially considering the way this year has turned out.

yeah I get it ... but predictions are what we do, it's part of life ... we don't make predictions we don't live ... plus this is the snarky channel so I always try to filter it that way

My interpretation of that is that someone took a trump parade. Created their own dialogue to project their own anger and frustration. My point being, there are groups of people that's going to resonate with. I just hope they don't act on it.

In that manner.

acting on it would be counter-productive to what they want and what is in their best interest, but don't under-estimate that folks will do precisely that

It would also be very hypocritical

Since broadly speaking we've been on the democrats about not speaking out against their fringe.

they are, if anything, reactive to Trump and it's hard to determine whether he's playing the game or has become part of the Matrix himself ... the later part is what worries me

Life is more than black and white.

But peoples thinking isn't lately.

but that's the fuel that social media runs on

This one was good 😂

I don't know where you get these ... and believe me I do NOT want to know

https://youtu.be/TQXuazYI_YU

Wait.. They cherry-picked the pool of participants in the phase 3 study??? What in the world? We are pushing a vaccine on billions of people (ultimately) using a technology that until 1 year ago was theoretical. We have completely abandoned the need for study of long term effects - the longest amount of time that, at most, 40k people of been studied after taking this medication is 5 months. We have absolutely no idea what happens to someone after 6 months, 1 year, 5 years... Nothing.

Then, there's the whole having to store it at ridiculously low temperatures. Unprecedentedly low temperatures... and nobody questions it. I am not an anti-vaxxer. My kids have had all of their vaccinations, but I am skeptical of this. If it were not for CoVid, there would be no way that this would be approved with the meager amount of data that we have so far and now we find that they severely constrained who was allowed to participate in the trial. How does that pass scientific muster?

^^ Oh Lord ... saw the movie but would not have remembered this quote

Add in the relaxing of regulations the fda is doing because uhhhh *EmErGeNcY*

Its the peoples response to the virus hurting far worse than the virus.

I'm letting people live with me to give their husband the house and not worry about spreading it to the family during a quarantine period. So I don't say that not being sensitive to peoples concerns.

rate of this particular reaction is about 10 times expected ... note that this vaccine is weighted risk equation, the virus kills so far no indication that happens with the vaccine ... if you are over 70 you want this vaccine because you have a 1 in 20 chance of dying if you catch the virus and the vaccine will move that to 1 in 400 ... long term risks mean nothing if you're dead ... other age groups it is not so clear, though health care workers, in particular, because of their constant exposure to the virus and possibility of getting a high viral load are also of increased risk (one person I know currently on a ventilator is an under 40 health care worker with no known pre-existing conditions, yikes)

Who knows... maybe this is the medical miracle they say it is, but there is no way it has been proven at this point. I hate to say it, but anyone taking the mRNA-based vaccines is doing so on mostly blind faith - and not faith in science, because the scientific method has been largely abandoned in this case. This is the equivalent of playing golf with a relatively no-name golfer who hits a great tee shot on the longest Par 5 at one of the hardest golf courses in the world and conceding an Eagle.

"Mr. President-elect. Do you still think the story from the fall about your son Hunter..."

I would characterize it as "largely abandoned" but I also would not under-estimate the weight of political pressure

@meglide, you just advanced to level 26!

During a thunderstorm.

I mean just the one has to be stored at a lower temp not both and they have tested mrna vaccines on humans in the past so that's not theoretical. But yeah they are rushing it to save lives.

Interesting https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/12/22/business/trump-deutsche-bankers-resign/index.html

Regarding temperature... There is one that requires ridiculously low temperatures and the other that still is maintained at extremely low temperatures. I'm curious what happens when they have been brought to room temperature? What happens when they are brought to roughly 98.6? The descriptions are that *"the biological material used to package the mRNA so it can be delivered as a vaccine is also somewhat unstable."* What does "unstable" mean?

Also, I am not aware of any mRNA-based vaccines being part of any significant trials in the past. I asked Doc about it before and he was aware of some experimental mRNA-based treatments for MS that were done around 2010 with mixed results, but that was a very limited sample size. Do you have any information on other mRNA vaccines that have studied long term effects?

“ It is well known that the absorption of mRNA in the absence of a delivery system is extremely low, and the half-life of mRNA is approximately 7 h [72]. Moreover, mRNA is an inherently unstable molecule, which is highly prone to degradation by 5’ exonucleases, 3’ exonucleases, and endonucleases” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7076378/ @TaLoN132

This guy explains it well https://youtu.be/l7k8dDCvrrc

@TaLoN132

4:05

Past the preamble

think you're correct in no mRNA vaccines have been used in the past, though there have been some medicines ... again we'll get @Doc to chime in on this conversation later ... low temperature is to keep it stable, at regular refrigerator temperatures it's stable for a handful of days

Thanks... watching it now.