@TaLoN132, you just advanced to level 18!

@Bey I agree that methods should be modified to put as many people's minds at ease as possible. I think educating about what's in place would help too.

I'm NOT accepting (yet?) what is claimed about what has been found ... there are claims of coordinated widespread fraud but haven't seen compelling evidence of such, more importantly such evidence doesn't seem to have presented in court and even those claims of fraud don't seem to have been made in court

People on the left swear that the opposite it true, too. Peope say a lot of things.

Here in my very rural neck of the woods in Oklahoma, when I went to vote on November 3, the vote machine scan thingy was down. Never thought anything of it.

This county is very Libertarian.

I think the debate on what are reasonable restrictions is going to outlive CoVid itself.

@meglide I'm talking about things like sharpiegate, trucking in half a million rigged ballots, counters filling in empty bubbles, etc. Some people haven't let go of those and a ton more.

@TaLoN132 In light of the Lefts behavior for the past 4 years leaves very little to allow one to trust anything they say.

I would hope that some meaningful legislation might come out of all this ... saying someone needs to wear a mask when in potentially crowded public spaces is one thing, saying a business cannot operate at all is another

Hmmm... As a centrist and an information nerd, I spend quite a bit of time in both the right and left wing echo chambers. The list of grievances on the left about Trump and his supporters is at least equal to those on the right regarding the left. I have never seen it so divided and both sides are absolutely certain that they have the moral high ground.

@TaLoN132 Notice it's 'The Left' (monolith) and Trump though. They aren't equivalent discourse entities.

also seems that some limits on executive power need enforced ... executive orders that carry the force of law need to be outlawed but the legislative branch

And there are some mandates require people to wear masks inside their own homes!

@Bey, you just advanced to level 4!

wow haven't seen one of those ... that would definitely be an overstep

All in all, the government of today has seriously gone beyond it's Constitutional limits. All political factions are guilty of it.

There are some that incorrectly believe that the People's Rights derive from the Constitution. That is the furthest from the truth! The Constitution places limitations upon the government by the People. Somewhere along the way, it because reversed...

preach

I completely agree... But I also think that the majority of those in the position to make these calls are sincere in wanting to make the right decision. I have a feeling that if I were in the same position, I would err on the side of caution - not out of malice, but concern. Here in CA, 99%+ are complying with wearing masks in public. This weekend, there were about 400 protesters in Huntington Beach that voiced their opposition to a curfew imposed by our governor. The pictures in the media made it look like CA was revolting. 400 people in a city of 200K - which is in the middle of a county of 3.2M.

Unfortunately this is 100% true

more importantly, the Constirution defined what the Government CAN NOT DO

Maybe it was because they chose to call the first 10 amendments the Bill of Rights....

Governments can only exist if the People, who created them, allow it. Once the creation becomes so large and begins to control its creator does it become tyrannical.

I got lazy... Sorry.

@TaLoN132 Without putting too fine a point on it, Trump is a single observable thing with its own isolated nature (which can be assessed either way according to preference) and 'The Left' is invented, imbued universally with whatever objectionable properties are found in any part of it and assessed according to that.

I think there is something important in the distinction.

I get it... One's a Straw Man. One's an Orange Man.

Sorry... Couldn't help myself.

Any Powers that are not specifically granted to the government by the People in the Constitution are delegated to the States. Yet, we see today, many Powers the Federal Governent has granted itself outside the scope of the Constitution, which is a limiting and restrictive document.

One is a megazord straw man and the other is whether you like a clearly identifiable thing or not.

Yes

omg... I'm stating to sound like an attorney...

lol

Megazord was after my time but it's a good analogy.

And after yours as well ;)

But the covid mandate problems are coming from the state level and below, no?

You're always outing me...

The issue is that shutting down businesses deprives someone of their livelihood without compensation ... regardless of motivation there is the law of unintended consequences, who is to say what is and is not an essential business ... we have to face the fact that we can only slow the spread not stop it at this point

Hahaha sorry. You have me by very scant years.

It's become common in the commons. No one enters anywhere without a mask and social distancing. It has become mainstay and isn't even a "new" normal anymore. Just normal but I guess you're bunkered down somewhere completely removed from society and haven't been to a gas station or grocery store or sanitized a buggy lately.

@inwa, you just advanced to level 3!