@Jarlkage Productions I got circumcised as a baby so I haven’t really done much research into it

But what I would rather? Lose a genital pleasure center vs lose a genital pleasure center?

Haha I’m not offended. I’m pretty confident I know what it is. Mine is intact. I’m also aware that there are different levels of removal.

That's another aspect that complicates the issue.

But we can with the most common forms of FGM and MGM

But you should be thankful if you still have yours. I mean, it has the frenulum, for starters...

But if you have a forseskin, presumably you're aware how it compares to a (glans) clitoris size-wise

I mean my dad has his and he doesn't know about how significant it is. He's like 52.

It seems that robbing a woman of the ability of a clitoral orgasm is more detrimental than robbing a man of his foreskin sensations. I can’t know this for sure. But that’s my impression.

They can still have orgasms. A lot do, like Malaysian women

But taking away the g-spot, the frenulum absolutely decreases sexual pleasure for men too. Ignoring what happens to a dick once you cut off the mucosal tissue that keeps the tip lubricated

How do you orgasm without a clitoris??

Or the ridged band

Most women can't orgasm without it.

Good for them. Women can achieve orgasm from vaginal stimulation, but it’s rare.

There are still nerves that remain after the cut where the clit used to be

But they're both pretty bad

So this, I was trying to look up. What’s the percentage of woman that can achieve clitoral orgasm after FGM? And does it make it harder? Like we talking a few AA batteries, or do we need 240 volts? Or like a Tesla?

Here’s a snippet from an article. I’ll post the link.

Not everyone reacts the same way to FGM/C either. Numerous studies show that women who have undergone FGM/C often experience reduced sexual sensation or desire, pain during sex, an inability to self-lubricate or orgasm, and anxiety or other mental symptoms of trauma, among other issues. But some women say they can still have pleasurable sex with few or no difficulties, even after undergoing the most extreme forms of FGM/C.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en_uk/article/43k93m/a-couple-talks-about-sex-after-fgm-female-genital-mutilation

This overall seems more difficult to deal with than circumcision. So for me, like I was saying earlier. We can still have a meaningful discussion about circumcision, even if it was deemed worse. I feel that Trav feels it’s extremely important to talk about because FGM is universally more frowned upon, where circumcision is deemed totally acceptable and often superior.

This is an interesting element of the discussion. I thought we all agreed that FGM was a bit more brutal.

Female genital mutilation is what it's called and its entire purpose is designed to deny women of any sexual pleasure. It is a far cry from circumcision. While both are strange. FGM is just sadistic even on the bare surface. A lot of times women can't use the bathroom anymore without extreme pain. One of my capstone papers back in college was on this topic along with acid attacks.

I have no idea necessarily whether or not women can reach orgasm clitorally after fgm but isn't the clit a way bigger structure that wraps around and shit on the inside too, not just the part that pokes out

fgm is horrible and way worse than circumcision btw

@everyone going live now! This will be interesting https://youtu.be/z8YSAJ3yvjk

"Female genital mutilation is what it's called and its entire purpose is designed to deny women of any sexual pleasure." This was the rationale for circumcision until the sexual revolution, but both are done out of belief that it will benefit the person receiving it anyways. Plus, the exact nature of the intention for doing is kind of irrelevant, isn't it?

"It is a far cry from circumcision. While both are strange. FGM is just sadistic even on the bare surface." How is it a far cry from circumcision? And cutting people's genitals against their will is sadistic regardless of sex of the victim.

"A lot of times women can't use the bathroom anymore without extreme pain. One of my capstone papers back in college was on this topic along with acid attacks." I take it you know about FGM but little about MGM

But also, while i understand you guys don't have arguments for FGM being worse. You can hardly even define what you even mean by that? Is it more painful than circ? Are the effects worse? Both of which you are struggle to support anyways. But here are some facts. The victims of FGM worldwide are around 200 million. MGM victims are around 30% of men worldwide, which is around 1 billion people. There's by far more men getting their genitals cut than women. And there isn't really a country that cuts women that doesn't do it to men, and there are many countries that do it to men that don't do it to women.

@Jarlkage Productions you can still experience sexual pleasure and not have pain using the bathroom with circumcision vs FGM. Look I have no problem calling circumcision MGM. The last part is just not true though. I do have an argument for why FGM is worse. The way women are cut varies in places but when it's done but when it's done where the clitoris is removed that is not the same thing as removing foreskin. That FGM is the equivalent of being a eunuch, removing your dick, or a large part of it. Ok? And while they're both bad practices we can have a nuanced conversation about them. As for "both of which you are struggling to support" dude I am not supporting either

@everyone The war of ideas gut check time.... Who will enter this battlefield?... Who will share this on social media and start the conversations?... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5438JVPE1Y

I commented

If i didn't make it clear in the comment I don't think bullying helps them

I encourage you all to not only comment, but create an ideological battle on your own pages.

But I do think like undiagnosed psycho and sociopaths they are dangerous unless they get help fast.

It's a difficult topic to wade around for me because the damage just from one of these people who don't get help can be life ruining to multiple children.

this is one of those things you have to word very carefully if you're going to try and push for rehabilitation and be sure that you aren't coming off as though you support pedophilia

I’m not gonna try posting this because even though I agree, I’m only 17 and would suffer social ostracism from this

Also I was wondering if anyone could hop on vc later and discuss the is ought fallacy with me. I’m a new atheist and still trying to decide if I believe morality is objective or subjective

> this is one of those things you have to word very carefully if you're going to try and push for rehabilitation and be sure that you aren't coming off as though you support pedophilia
@AirBreather5000 Wrong. You call out the irrationaliy by exposing the fallaciousness. Do not butter your language up for the radicals, they must eat it as is.