Message from @el pebble

Discord ID: 521560841825288193


2018-12-10 05:31:08 UTC  

My actions did not effect my outcome

2018-12-10 05:31:23 UTC  

So how can I be guilty of choosing the wrong door

2018-12-10 05:31:32 UTC  

Your actions did affect your outcome

2018-12-10 05:31:46 UTC  

You freely choose the course of action that will happen

2018-12-10 05:32:05 UTC  

It's an interesting thing that sounds like a truism

2018-12-10 05:32:20 UTC  

So, can I conciously change wether I go to heaven or hell via my actions and beliefs

2018-12-10 05:32:34 UTC  

Without arbitration?

2018-12-10 05:32:57 UTC  

Anything you do is already determined to happen

2018-12-10 05:33:37 UTC  

So how can you call anyone guilty

2018-12-10 05:33:48 UTC  

They were determined to do evil

2018-12-10 05:34:02 UTC  

Because they freely chose the determined path

2018-12-10 05:34:23 UTC  

That's the technicality

2018-12-10 05:34:39 UTC  

You can't choose a different outcome but you will always freely choose the determined outcome

2018-12-10 05:34:48 UTC  

But they we're determined beforehand to be on that path

2018-12-10 05:35:09 UTC  

Everything is determined yes, but not controlled

2018-12-10 05:35:41 UTC  

No, a person can change wether or not they go to hell or heaven thru their beliefs and actions

2018-12-10 05:35:56 UTC  

And if they do that then it is already determined to happen

2018-12-10 05:36:03 UTC  

No

2018-12-10 05:36:12 UTC  

Then God isn't all powerful and all knowing

2018-12-10 05:36:17 UTC  

Wrong

2018-12-10 05:36:34 UTC  

God's eternal knowledge means he knows what all is going to happen

2018-12-10 05:36:49 UTC  

He can know wether or not and can control your destination, but willingly chooses to forfeit this information, but can access it any time

2018-12-10 05:37:49 UTC  

You cannot say he willingly chooses to forfeit it, but even if he does, the fact that he can access it still means he has eternal knowledge of all time

2018-12-10 05:37:57 UTC  

Making everything that happens determined

2018-12-10 05:38:09 UTC  

No

2018-12-10 05:38:24 UTC  

God's knowledge is not variable

2018-12-10 05:38:30 UTC  

Otherwise he is not all knowing

2018-12-10 05:39:14 UTC  

If he knows all that is to happen, then what will happen is determined as a result and not by action

2018-12-10 05:39:26 UTC  

And his intervention will not change that

2018-12-10 05:39:45 UTC  

For his eternal knowledge will include knowing of his intervention

2018-12-10 05:40:33 UTC  

Now, any anthromorphic attempts to this misses the point

2018-12-10 05:40:46 UTC  

Knowing all that will happen means what will happen is set in stone

2018-12-10 05:41:30 UTC  

If free will were true God could not know your next move

2018-12-10 09:49:19 UTC  

@el pebble God is not unjust

2018-12-10 09:49:44 UTC  

things are pre determined until we come in a situation where we have free will

2018-12-10 09:50:08 UTC  

100% predetermination is a heretic belief because it says that God causes us to sin

2018-12-10 09:50:12 UTC  

which is wrong

2018-12-10 11:51:14 UTC  

You have not read anything I said

2018-12-10 12:27:08 UTC  

I specifically partition acting on determination and it being a factor of eternally knowing

2018-12-10 15:07:19 UTC  

I am divided, I understand your reasoning but I will need to think about this long afterwards to fully grasp the full extent of it. But you may be wrong as well.

2018-12-10 15:10:36 UTC  

Like what you do you would do in all scenario the exact same as the one you are in. Along with everyone else in their scenarios. Meaning God just knows what we will do but is not forcing us to do this. @el pebble Am I somewhat understanding what you are saying right?