and that we can imagine a more perfect version of everything in this imperfect world

I find it ironic that our sides fight so heavily when we want the same thing in different flavors, or at least some of us do

marxism is not like that we don't 'imagine' a more perfect world we want to look at how the material world is an make a prediction based on our observations of what will occur next

marxists who are 'imagining' are not actually marxists but Utopian socialists

And in a certain sense so does fascism but we take in account the family and old culture

And the end results are different for both

That seems to be the most big divides i’ve seen

the issue here is that family and culture are not thngs we consider as part of the 'economic base' as in the material things that shape everything but as things that are shaped by our economic base.

I’m going to be honest I’ve learned quite a bit from talking with you folks

as in

family may be family always

I see, you’re more focused on the straight shot economic values

but how family is conceived as an idea depends on how economics are at the time

i.e

we live in very nuclear families under capitalism

under say primitive communism/tribalism

they lived in less nuclear famlies

and more 'communal living'

I see

this was because communal living was better for the tribal setting

while nuclear family is better for the capitalist setting

this is ultimately what i mean when i say 'the base shapes the superstructure'

I believe it works well under a fascist system as well

And that’s why we value it

It’s also formed from the recent state of the family and how we see it falling apart under this current system which is leading to complications

Which I think helps the drive to protect the nuclear family idea

@GermanEastAfrica so what i want to say is that marxists are not against marriage or family as things people do
but the specific forms of marriage and family inherent to capitalism

@LoJ Wait for the Congress to convene

Like the fact you need a license for marriage

well more like marriage is a way for often men to control women

i.e in feudalistic times

marriage was all about

how can i obtain more land?

yes marry my daugthers off to the rich son of that landowner

Due to the fact that was the only way to have rights

so the very conception of marriage has shifted in society

due to the romanticist movement

marriage has been commodified as well

into the capitalist system

but because marriage still came from that feudalistic kind of thinking it still remains an reactionary element and only serves to hold certain groups down.

My view on marriage and the role of the mother is that it’s alright for the woman to get a job but she should not be shamed into never getting married