Message from @April

Discord ID: 556289022960599051


2019-03-16 01:30:00 UTC  

right so in russia what had happened was that communists got into power

2019-03-16 01:30:09 UTC  

and power naturally corrupts (which is why anarchists oppose it)

2019-03-16 01:30:17 UTC  

they switched leaders at one point iirc

2019-03-16 01:30:33 UTC  

and eventually they ended up being corrupt and turning into a dictatorship

2019-03-16 01:30:43 UTC  

after that people saw that communism wasn't working

2019-03-16 01:30:46 UTC  

black markets popped up

2019-03-16 01:30:50 UTC  

and they grew in support

2019-03-16 01:31:04 UTC  

we see this same process happening in north korea right now

2019-03-16 01:31:10 UTC  

they're migrating from communism to capitalism

2019-03-16 01:31:25 UTC  

I see, so the anarchists need another ideology to grow in power, but then this same ideology who helped them destroys them?

2019-03-16 01:31:34 UTC  

exactly

2019-03-16 01:31:44 UTC  

so anarchists have traditionally had two routes to our ideology

2019-03-16 01:32:01 UTC  

the first is the one I just described. help communists, then when in power dissolve government/ownership

2019-03-16 01:32:10 UTC  

the second is what you see in the middle east and places like egypt

2019-03-16 01:32:20 UTC  

a violent revolution, usually alongside communists and disgruntled capitalists

2019-03-16 01:32:38 UTC  

the problem is that it ends up with a power vaccuum, and a dictator takes the stand for people to follow

2019-03-16 01:32:57 UTC  

so basically: tear down and become a dictatorship, or build up and become communist then a dictatorship

2019-03-16 01:33:14 UTC  

and dictatorships with ownership and communist distribution give rise to black markets and capitalism

2019-03-16 01:33:20 UTC  

hence the horrible cycle anarchists find ourselves in

2019-03-16 01:33:50 UTC  

i see, so you guys basically have no way to rule without becoming a dictatorship?

2019-03-16 01:33:58 UTC  

not quite

2019-03-16 01:34:12 UTC  

so the issue is that since ownership is still in place, that naturally leads to capitalism no matter the route

2019-03-16 01:34:25 UTC  

communists support ownership due to their economic model

2019-03-16 01:34:28 UTC  

which is why it always collapses

2019-03-16 01:34:45 UTC  

the problem historically is that anarchists have not yet dismantled the ownership expectation

2019-03-16 01:34:56 UTC  

under capitalism it's impossible to do

2019-03-16 01:35:07 UTC  

under communism the only way to do it is through government changes

2019-03-16 01:35:19 UTC  

So didnt any anarchist think about a violent uprising, for a "greater good"?

2019-03-16 01:35:35 UTC  

right, that's why we got the second route of tearing things down

2019-03-16 01:35:53 UTC  

the idea is to just overthrow government and reject it's power

2019-03-16 01:36:09 UTC  

but given societal expectations and ways of living, it still results in capitalism

2019-03-16 01:36:17 UTC  

Oh

2019-03-16 01:36:21 UTC  

so the modern anarchist solution is to instead adopt alternative ways of living

2019-03-16 01:36:24 UTC  

that don't rely on ownership

2019-03-16 01:36:32 UTC  

this is *very* difficult to do right now under capitalism

2019-03-16 01:37:06 UTC  

but ideally we should be going the way of offgrid people (who are usually libertarian) along with making individual communes and smaller communities

2019-03-16 01:37:16 UTC  

so far it's not going too well

2019-03-16 01:37:26 UTC  

because trying to replace all infrastructure is very expensive

2019-03-16 01:37:33 UTC  

and not too many people support it just yet

2019-03-16 01:37:38 UTC  

i see

2019-03-16 01:38:00 UTC  

so right now a lot of anarchists tend to support progressive candidates who help remove capitalist reliance, and focus on buildin alternative ways of living