Message from @April

Discord ID: 556288061454024724


2019-03-16 01:26:27 UTC  

poor people, on average, are much more supportive of leftist resource distribution, which can really help facilitate anarchism

2019-03-16 01:26:41 UTC  

this is why anarchists and communists typically work together

2019-03-16 01:27:08 UTC  

so while an anarchist is *opposed* to a central authority providing healthcare for all, we see it as superior because it's a way of opting out of the capitalist model of buying healthcare

2019-03-16 01:27:22 UTC  

So what if both anarchists and communists rose to power worldwide together?

2019-03-16 01:27:35 UTC  

that's the other big struggle within anarchist politics

2019-03-16 01:27:36 UTC  

how would it be possible to defend from the communists?

2019-03-16 01:27:39 UTC  

it's happened a few times now

2019-03-16 01:27:48 UTC  

where both work together to achieve an egalitarian society

2019-03-16 01:28:00 UTC  

and then the communists afterwards oppress anarchists to push their model of government

2019-03-16 01:28:15 UTC  

usually communism at that point then turns into a dictatorship, is corrupted, and ends up with capitalism again

2019-03-16 01:28:21 UTC  

So this happened in soviet russia?

2019-03-16 01:28:33 UTC  

this is why the "overthrowing the state alongside anarchists" never works

2019-03-16 01:28:37 UTC  

right

2019-03-16 01:28:49 UTC  

you can see it wherever communists start getting power

2019-03-16 01:29:02 UTC  

anarchists support because the progress is beneficial to us

2019-03-16 01:29:08 UTC  

and then communists fuck everyone over once in power

2019-03-16 01:29:36 UTC  

this is why I'm supportive of "weening off" the reliance of state+capitalism

2019-03-16 01:29:41 UTC  

Also, how would you explain the opposing of the leftist ideologies in Russia nowadays?

2019-03-16 01:29:43 UTC  

rather than trying to overpower and overthrow it from the inside

2019-03-16 01:30:00 UTC  

right so in russia what had happened was that communists got into power

2019-03-16 01:30:09 UTC  

and power naturally corrupts (which is why anarchists oppose it)

2019-03-16 01:30:17 UTC  

they switched leaders at one point iirc

2019-03-16 01:30:33 UTC  

and eventually they ended up being corrupt and turning into a dictatorship

2019-03-16 01:30:43 UTC  

after that people saw that communism wasn't working

2019-03-16 01:30:46 UTC  

black markets popped up

2019-03-16 01:30:50 UTC  

and they grew in support

2019-03-16 01:31:04 UTC  

we see this same process happening in north korea right now

2019-03-16 01:31:10 UTC  

they're migrating from communism to capitalism

2019-03-16 01:31:25 UTC  

I see, so the anarchists need another ideology to grow in power, but then this same ideology who helped them destroys them?

2019-03-16 01:31:34 UTC  

exactly

2019-03-16 01:31:44 UTC  

so anarchists have traditionally had two routes to our ideology

2019-03-16 01:32:01 UTC  

the first is the one I just described. help communists, then when in power dissolve government/ownership

2019-03-16 01:32:10 UTC  

the second is what you see in the middle east and places like egypt

2019-03-16 01:32:20 UTC  

a violent revolution, usually alongside communists and disgruntled capitalists

2019-03-16 01:32:38 UTC  

the problem is that it ends up with a power vaccuum, and a dictator takes the stand for people to follow

2019-03-16 01:32:57 UTC  

so basically: tear down and become a dictatorship, or build up and become communist then a dictatorship

2019-03-16 01:33:14 UTC  

and dictatorships with ownership and communist distribution give rise to black markets and capitalism

2019-03-16 01:33:20 UTC  

hence the horrible cycle anarchists find ourselves in

2019-03-16 01:33:50 UTC  

i see, so you guys basically have no way to rule without becoming a dictatorship?

2019-03-16 01:33:58 UTC  

not quite

2019-03-16 01:34:12 UTC  

so the issue is that since ownership is still in place, that naturally leads to capitalism no matter the route