Message from @April

Discord ID: 556289852254060544


2019-03-16 01:32:57 UTC  

so basically: tear down and become a dictatorship, or build up and become communist then a dictatorship

2019-03-16 01:33:14 UTC  

and dictatorships with ownership and communist distribution give rise to black markets and capitalism

2019-03-16 01:33:20 UTC  

hence the horrible cycle anarchists find ourselves in

2019-03-16 01:33:50 UTC  

i see, so you guys basically have no way to rule without becoming a dictatorship?

2019-03-16 01:33:58 UTC  

not quite

2019-03-16 01:34:12 UTC  

so the issue is that since ownership is still in place, that naturally leads to capitalism no matter the route

2019-03-16 01:34:25 UTC  

communists support ownership due to their economic model

2019-03-16 01:34:28 UTC  

which is why it always collapses

2019-03-16 01:34:45 UTC  

the problem historically is that anarchists have not yet dismantled the ownership expectation

2019-03-16 01:34:56 UTC  

under capitalism it's impossible to do

2019-03-16 01:35:07 UTC  

under communism the only way to do it is through government changes

2019-03-16 01:35:19 UTC  

So didnt any anarchist think about a violent uprising, for a "greater good"?

2019-03-16 01:35:35 UTC  

right, that's why we got the second route of tearing things down

2019-03-16 01:35:53 UTC  

the idea is to just overthrow government and reject it's power

2019-03-16 01:36:09 UTC  

but given societal expectations and ways of living, it still results in capitalism

2019-03-16 01:36:17 UTC  

Oh

2019-03-16 01:36:21 UTC  

so the modern anarchist solution is to instead adopt alternative ways of living

2019-03-16 01:36:24 UTC  

that don't rely on ownership

2019-03-16 01:36:32 UTC  

this is *very* difficult to do right now under capitalism

2019-03-16 01:37:06 UTC  

but ideally we should be going the way of offgrid people (who are usually libertarian) along with making individual communes and smaller communities

2019-03-16 01:37:16 UTC  

so far it's not going too well

2019-03-16 01:37:26 UTC  

because trying to replace all infrastructure is very expensive

2019-03-16 01:37:33 UTC  

and not too many people support it just yet

2019-03-16 01:37:38 UTC  

i see

2019-03-16 01:38:00 UTC  

so right now a lot of anarchists tend to support progressive candidates who help remove capitalist reliance, and focus on buildin alternative ways of living

2019-03-16 01:38:00 UTC  

Is there anarchist politicians rn?

2019-03-16 01:38:04 UTC  

no

2019-03-16 01:38:18 UTC  

best we've got are some communists and progressives

2019-03-16 01:38:24 UTC  

Oh that makes it kinda hard

2019-03-16 01:38:31 UTC  

without support from powerfull people

2019-03-16 01:38:59 UTC  

it's funny because anarchists naturally tend towards "I don't want to lead nor anyone to lead" but also go "well these communists are kinda like us, so we'll support them to advance our goals"

2019-03-16 01:39:25 UTC  

but feel free to think about it yourself. Imagine you're fed up with the world

2019-03-16 01:39:28 UTC  

and want to live on your own

2019-03-16 01:39:34 UTC  

or maybe with a small group

2019-03-16 01:39:39 UTC  

how would you go about doing it?

2019-03-16 01:40:01 UTC  

Id probably go to a farm or small town

2019-03-16 01:40:06 UTC  

generally speaking most people don't know how to farm nor have the land for it. We can't build our own electronics nor generate our electricity

2019-03-16 01:40:16 UTC  

some people can build, but we don't have the materials to do it

2019-03-16 01:40:31 UTC  

things like mining are pretty heavily regulated and under statist/capitalist control

2019-03-16 01:40:47 UTC  

What if they use communist to rise in power a little, and then "betray" the commies?

2019-03-16 01:41:32 UTC  

see the problem is that you have your leading communist+anarchist party