Message from @༺པརབྱར།བསངཇ༻
Discord ID: 283351340745359360
GOAT
@diversity_is_racism the thing I take from quantum physics is that it reaches down into representations and exposes them as such; revealing the world as an incomprehensible dark void of impulses.
If the particle, matter, whatever, doesn't appear in the form we perceive it until it's "observed" but this is the stuff we are made of, than that certainly implies the existence of something outside of that frame which is responsible. More specifically that there is something non-human doing the observation.
A quantum physicist friend of mine said that the observer effect was a misnomer and proffered "perturbation" instead. His view was such that the mere interaction of waveforms was enough to collapse them.
It didn't hit me until now however that Schopenhauer had said about how we are only conscious of something when it resists our will. So if these representations happen regardless of other humans around, the implication is that there is some discrete, multitudinous *will* at this level which, when bumping shoulders, gives rise to this very basic grade of existence we try to make sense out of using physics.
Got off track a bit. There is no god.
So anyway that perturbation is what Schopenhauer was describing from a different lense
It's cool shit
I'm incapable of taking that deeper so don't probe me bb
I don't even know if this would be anything but junk science, to be honest. I don't know that there is something wrong with it, I don't suspect to the point that I would dismiss it but, there are trends in the scientific field that are way too humanist for their own good. Maybe observation does nothing and we just like to think it does?
The conclusion wouldn't be that you can sprout tentacles out of your arm
We definitely experience the effect
so it shouldn't be discarded
That does not mean that a phenomenon is dependent on observation. But I understand the point.
it just means that phenomena are the result of shoulders bumping, more or less. Without such "perturbations" the world is indeterminate potential I guess. That doesn't really matter though.
Since we can't know the answer
No. At least, not off of the models we have now. All of the uncertainty gives egg heads something to do.
We'll never get there
But once we stop trying, we are just going to atrophy. That is the tragedy of the workaholic. I guess we could breed temperaments that make do with uncertainty without stagnance and atrophy.
We could devote energy into how to live instead
ethics
Not to mention the other pillars.
Imagine all of the theorizing that we get today going into high art. Music, painting, sculpting: all of these ideas of how the more subtle world would look to our material eyes and sound to our ears. It would at least be more interesting to me.
Don't the artsy types thrive in crisis? They love it.
"well fuck, how do you write a good tune."
All of the musicians disagreeing though working at their very best could make an all new explosion of genres and enhance already existing ones. See, they would be creating something. That would fulfill them even with all of their doubts.
yeah but that's not usually the result of theorizing
Theorizing is deconstructive
rationality that is
It's not a creative force
I disagree. Look at Marilyn Manson. His theorizing on the occult led to many of his albums.
I don't know what you mean by his theorizing
I disagree that it can't be creative or lend itself to creativity, not that theorizing isn't deconstructive.
It's literally how the understanding works: it breaks down the "whole" into parts to reason about it. A la categorization
Sitting around and theorizing on how something is. What it is like. What it's properties are. These deep thoughts lead to impressions in the mind that lead to creativity.
How is quantum physics humanist
You know all that wank music out there? The stuff that relies heavily on rational faculties as opposed to our non-rational ones? It doesn't leave a strong impression does it
That's the sort of shit that is derived from artistic theories
I don't think marlyin Manson's aspirations of being the next Alice Cooper using his library card to read occult literature to shock mommy is really a strong example.
@profagonist It isn't. However, the immediate conclusion that a phenomenon must be experienced to have certain properties is. There have been a lot of physicists who rent seek from government grants jumping to these conclusions and others in the "string theory" line of thinking just to publish something. The assumption that humans hold a central role in the universe is humanist.
@༺པརབྱར།བསངཇ༻ I would assume that the wank music is there to entertain and to masquerade as art, obsessed with finding "unique" notes and being too self fascinated. When you have deep impressions of immaterial forces, it isn't very rational. When you want to capture an impression and relay it as deeply as possible through your medium, it could make for good music depending on the skill and investment of the artist.
I don't think that's a belief many physicists hold, actually I'd say most think the opposite
@༺པརབྱར།བསངཇ༻ Furthermore, we have a dearth of skill among the arts these days. Hopefully, the skilled will elbow the unskilled out of the way. Mediocrity really gets more attention than it deserves.
@profagonist I agree. But THOSE physicists have real jobs.
Physics is basically about arguing against that anthropocentrism