Down low?

You can stand for individual rights and organize to advocate for them. It doesn't immediately make you a collectivist if you're rallying for individual rights.

A collection of people with the same belifs is kinda a collective

How can a signal person no matter how smart, athletic or other wise talented beat a cohesive collective? No one follows this principal just look at the "liberalists".

You can't. The point isn't how they're organizing, but what they're organizing for.

Like nazis and communists are both collectives, but they vastly differ from each other in terms of principle.

I assumed capitalism was anti collective, because they work for themselves, and so happens that helping others through goods production would benefit the self.

I mean, they're not *that* different from each other... <:hmkGrin:284219474440355840>

In a collective you do shit cause it benefits the collcetive

Although I agree it still doesn't answer the question posed toward Sargon: "What happens when an individual uses their individual rights to join a collective?"

You can't stop them, because then you're stomping on their individual rights.

Then they give up their rights as an individual and replace them with those of a collectivist?

I mean its their right to do so.

I mean, I can see what Sargon is going for with this Liberalist thing he has going on, but he needs to know that a lot can go wrong with it if it gets out of control.

I think another issue is the whole Kraut thing and what happened to 'Justice Democrats' is not too far behind us, so it is still fresh in people's minds.

Even the reddit anarchists recognize they need managers even though most dont adnit it

And well.. I dont think I want sargon at the helm of this.

everyone that isn't anarchist is partially collectivist

Either he'll be at the head of it, and it may or may not go well, or he'll find it more stressful than he originally thought and then hand the reins to someone else.

Arguably everyonr is part something and that changes often

Unlike gender..

i think the issue with collectivism on the left stems from the lack of seperation between ideas and action

Well, that's what family's are... collectives. Same thing with friends, and clubs, and coworkers, and gaming with your guild on MMOs...

Like how many would like the idea behind the new label and what bakes it different from libertarian

you can propose potentially bad solutions but not act upon them

which is obvious to any conservative

These Ideas have and never will be implamented because they will never work. They only appeal a small percentage of the population.

which ideas

indvidual rights above group rights.

More like not everyone will know how to handle individual freedom.

How many of us would rather be guided sheep. Stuck but content with doing one thing

No ambition or will to improve oneself.

if we all had 100% freedom we would be overwhelmed by biological motiviation

I’m truly failing to see what is so hard to understand about a group of people making government their bitch rather than collectively being subservient to government

whether it be violence, drug use, stealing

Collectivism appeals to the people who are aware of their personal weaknesses and want the collective to compensate for them.

Hmm guess its a small govt vs big govt

Individualism is an ideology for people who want no responsibles and have no ambition in life.

I wish that made sense

I think we saw responsibility differently.

this is <#398973785426100234> btw