Just becuase it can't grow to be old does not mean that the cell is itself dead

but this is all off topic

The cell lives for a time

yes, but thats part of the problem.

So, if you remove a sperm cell or fertilized egg cell from a female, it will not live to 9 months

agreed?

same goes for a zygote, which is like fertilized egg 2.0

now, a fetus could, if you removed it at somewhere around 7 months. it would have low odds, but it could live to 9 months

It wont survive.

not true, premature babies start having a 50% chance of surviving around then i think

Dont really see where your going with this.

not without help but then again neither does a 1 year old

I was answering your question

ah

so it won't survive

not without a female

Still dont see how that means that by outlawing abortion we would be outlawing masturbation?

not saying it would, but i'm not talking about outlawing. Its about what is considered human life, and therefore what is moral to kill and immoral to kill. and why. Its pretty clear why killing in self defense is moral when you don't have an option. most people don't view masturbation as killing although you are killing sperm cells as you made a choice.

killing is obviously a choice, which is why natural death does not count

But by saying killing your sperm cells, you a conflating sperm as a separate entity

is sperm not alive?

Sperm is you

So by killing sperm

Your killing yourself

See where this confuses me?

a fertilized egg is half the mother, half the father. if both agree to kill it, are they not just killing themselves?

I would say not

i know you would, but why

this is very important to the abortion debate

Because a fertilized egg is a completely separate entity beyond the mother and father

how so? it needs to be in the mother, it cannot life without the mother.

is it not part of the mother?

it doesn't even eat on its own

it gets everything from the mother

It's not a part of the mother

If it was, it would not naturally come out of the mother

Anyhow but I got to get on the road

Just got off work. Be back in at most an hour.

Can discuss more then.

so then sperm is not part of me, otherwise it would not naturally come out of me. And fair enough.

Oh bummer. I have work and will miss the debate over "when does life start". 😦