Poles and Czechs did more in terms of actually risking their necks.

If so, Bush II needs to be charged too

Because Iraq in 2003 was DUMB

I'm trying to give Obama at least some credit by assuming malice rather than stupidity.

Again, he was doing what the American public elected him to do. Stop the slow but steady meatgrinder of American troops.

Was he elected to screw the US worse than W did?

People who wanted to keep the fight going voted for McCain. McCain lost by more than anyone in a two-way race since Bush I obliterated Dukakis.

The sectarian fighting was largely over due to the surge

Obama did what he believed was best given the mandate placed upon him in the election

Best for whom? Because it wasn't for the US.

Same with Bush II

Obama did what he believed to be best based on his worship of his anti-colonialist father.

Bush II and Obama both did DUMB things

Is that treasonous? No

presidents do dumb shit

period

Bush II acted on a family grudge. Is that treasonous? No.

And anti-American Presidents do visibly treasonous shit.

Obama disliked warmaking. He was cautious. It also led to unwise or even dumb decisions.

Obama disliked the country he was placed in charge of.

Trump hates free trade and was elected on a mandate that gives him a free hand. IMHO he's doing some dumb things. But he's doing the best he knows how.

Obama is as much a patriot as anyone else who has been in the presidency

The word 'treason' is emotionally loaded. Better to say that Obama did things that objectively hurt the interests of the United States due to his belief that western colonialism is the root of all evil in the world.

He probably believed that he was helping the US by somehow undoing the colonial past.

But what he was actually doing is making the world far less secure.

Oh, bullshit. Obama thought his mandate was to weaken the US.

Atkins, I think you mentioned earlier how the Brits screwed up the Middle East for the past centuries by arbitrary borders

His administration may well be indirectly responsible for the dissolution of the EU.

That was the fruits of colonialism

I don't recall saying something like that.

Hmm, okay

I get confused sometimes

I said the borders of Africa and the Middle East were arbitrary.

Sorry for the misattribution

Okay

Too many other national borders in the world are also arbitrary, actually.

Devpav, regarding Obama and weakening the US, I disagree. He saw value in collaboration. If we make the whole world economic pie bigger and the US's share goes down but rises in absolute terms, that's still more for the US.

The British and the French certainly set the borders of the middle east after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, but they were subject to the realpolitik of the time. Plenty of warlords and emirs who had to be appeased in order for the to pull their forces out.

That is literally just race-to-the-bottom logic.

True, Atkins. But that's still the fruits of colonialism.

However, if the system was working in favor of the US, why undermine it?