And anti-American Presidents do visibly treasonous shit.

Obama disliked warmaking. He was cautious. It also led to unwise or even dumb decisions.

Obama disliked the country he was placed in charge of.

Trump hates free trade and was elected on a mandate that gives him a free hand. IMHO he's doing some dumb things. But he's doing the best he knows how.

Obama is as much a patriot as anyone else who has been in the presidency

The word 'treason' is emotionally loaded. Better to say that Obama did things that objectively hurt the interests of the United States due to his belief that western colonialism is the root of all evil in the world.

He probably believed that he was helping the US by somehow undoing the colonial past.

But what he was actually doing is making the world far less secure.

Oh, bullshit. Obama thought his mandate was to weaken the US.

Atkins, I think you mentioned earlier how the Brits screwed up the Middle East for the past centuries by arbitrary borders

His administration may well be indirectly responsible for the dissolution of the EU.

That was the fruits of colonialism

I don't recall saying something like that.

Hmm, okay

I get confused sometimes

I said the borders of Africa and the Middle East were arbitrary.

Sorry for the misattribution

Okay

Too many other national borders in the world are also arbitrary, actually.

Devpav, regarding Obama and weakening the US, I disagree. He saw value in collaboration. If we make the whole world economic pie bigger and the US's share goes down but rises in absolute terms, that's still more for the US.

The British and the French certainly set the borders of the middle east after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, but they were subject to the realpolitik of the time. Plenty of warlords and emirs who had to be appeased in order for the to pull their forces out.

That is literally just race-to-the-bottom logic.

True, Atkins. But that's still the fruits of colonialism.

However, if the system was working in favor of the US, why undermine it?

But devpav, it's logic that is subscribed to in both left and right circles.

Atkins, I'd say the same thing to Trump, now.

The Breton Woods world benefits the US. Why tear it down?

Only the globalist circles in the left and right.

Yes, devpav.

The Breton Woods world doesn't exist anymore.

That's my point.

There is no Soviet Union.

And the globalists' interests are not our interests.

By the way, anyone want to tell me which president approved China's ascension into the WTO? This was when things really got bad for the US re: trade deficits. Any takers?

Personally I think that NATO should exist, and I believe Trump does as well. However the Europeans must spend 2% of their GDP on actual military power.

It was not Obama

Wasn't even Clinton

W.

Thank you

Is anyone here defending W?

Nope.