```"You're all a bunch of socialists!"
-Ludwig von Mises.```

the only way to avoid taxes and generally function without relying on the state is to be self sufficient, yet that state makes such activities like hunting illegal without having the required permits, and only during certain times of the year. And in order to farm you need land, which usually means you were given something the state counts as income at some point and taxed unless you were very very lucky with the life you were born into. For most people avoiding taxes is not valid option that doesn't still post a risk of death or jail. And the state cannot be relied upon to statify your basic needs.

also a government isint an insurance agency protecting you from aggression against your person or property, it is when you only imagine yourself in a world without government, however in a world where government is established for as long as humanity has existed in some form or another, government is that natural tendency of humans who associate themselves to some people but not all people. in that scenario what government insures you against is the eternal out group and insures the propagation of whatever in group you have and the rules that have existed for that in group for as long as it remains sovereign

the state taxes what are basic needs within its society to insure that anyone who benefits from its protection is guaranteed to be earning it. thats simply the most sensible method of taxation.

no state is free to those who choose not to believe they are part of it yet choose to still depend on it

And then goes out of it's way to make competiting with them for supplying those needs needlessly expensive. There by keeping their justification for taxing.

i would state that if you can manage to have the protection of a state without paying any taxes your stealing from the state and everyone around you

you would be an incredibly privilaged person in that community for the community to choose you of all of them not to have to provide anything to have the same rights and benefits they all share by mutual cooperation with eachother

yet i assume thats not really whats desired, whats truely desired is absolute freedom, which you can only get without a state, and thus you also can only get in part of the world no community claims to own, true wilderness

So you force me to use the provided road, make it near illegal for me to build my own, then say I'm stealing when I don't want to pay taxes for something you are forcing me to use?

ive already stated i beleive the united states over reaches, i think you should be able to do far more than you can do in the united states with what you pay taxes for

however you could never build a road without paying for taxes, for instance you cant build a road without owning the land the road is going on

Sure you can. That just causes a bunch of other problems.

sure you can overreach yourself onto other people into the community

but i dont think grenade would agree with that either

im arguing from a hypothetical perspective of a principled state, not a perspective of the united states of american. in my opinion i don't believe someone should be able to do ANYTHING productive in the united states without being taxed (within measurable reason) however on the same hand i believe the taxes should be less and the amount of things you should be allowed to do when you are paying taxes should be massively increased

people born into a state are a problem because they didn't choose to live there, and they don't have the option to leave by default usually, unless there happens to be unclaimed land near by.

because they are born into an environment not of their own choosing and then after 18 years have to choose without any incentive by their progenitors (who usually would prefer them to remain in the environment they are born into unless they themselves fled it) to choose to stay within that environment or go to a different environment?

They don't have the choice to go to a different environment by default.

Because it's possible no other state allows them in

yep

though i would encourage more states to be open to ideological immigration

its the only form of immigration i agree with even though it to has some degree of brain drain

Unless there is unclaimed land, these people are potential trapped by the circumstances of their birth. There is also the possibility that moving far enough to get to an accepting state is just not possible.

there hasent been unclaimed land on earth for thousands of years

theres only been land that was claimed by those to weak to maintain it

except antarctica

at one time in history you did have some benefits, due to a lack of multiculturalism and genetic predisposition you were much more likely in the past to be born into an environment you were best adapted to. now that is only a higher chance but hey hindsight is twenty twenty

now you can be an african born in the arctic circle

even for creatures born into environments that they have a chance to be best suited for, some unfortunately dont live happly. i call this the "lifes not fair principle"

its unfortunate to be an antistatist when in fact the natural predisposition for humanity is to form community in order to gain protection in numbers and concentration of effort through cooperation. it thus becomes very difficult to find part of the world where you can live without being part of that due to the natural instinct of humans is to assume you are like them and thus when they see you living on your island they bring their version of "the right way" after assessing all of the defenses you have and preparing to have 100x more firepower than you when they introduce themselves

like i said, freedom doesent exist

but if you try hard enough you can get some definition of it that you can still protect yourself from other's worse definitions of it

and thus i give you the united states of america

or you could get lucky and own your own icbm with a deadman switch

i do have some sympathy, im not ignorant to the romantic nobility of man against nature without the complications of man kinds struggle with each other. but you'll never find a pure life of man vs wild in the presence of humanity. maybe in outer space but even then its only a matter of time before an individual in space cant protect themselves from communities in space without their own community in space.

i agree

We truly live in a society

Discuss

I disagree

We live in a collective