and there was a video Game I loved called "the Price of Freedom"...

though many here might be too young to know it 😛

and don't have the right input devices to play it

It was a 1996 release on PC-CD-ROM.

freaking 7 Discs

taxes arnt the price of freedom, taxes are the price of sovereignty

freedom isint a concept that any living thing actually has, what we as humans can manage is a very narrow definition of freedom that we also disagree over the best interpretation of and implantation of.

The point is, you avoid taxes you go to jail. But you can only avoid taxes if you permanently leave the country. Yet to do that, another country had to accept you. You are offered no choice. Your parents decide. That is not freedom.

thats actually a disingenuous argument, because it implies something by not giving the full context of what causes the effect it argues against. you do go to jail if you avoid paying taxes, however you can avoid having to pay taxes and remain a member of a state. i've never paid income tax for example, the reason ive never paid income tax is that ive never actually had income. now various things in our society that you opt into have associated taxes such as property and income, these taxes exist for one reason and one reason only, national defense.

i would say though that what the united states uses taxes for and how it treats people who owe taxes to the united states has overreached its reasonable and constitutional boundaries.

we could have an argument where a preferable response to someone not paying taxes would be excommunication though if you like.

If government is an insurance agency protecting us from aggression against our person or property, then for an insurance agency to use force against competing agencies is a contradiction of it's purpose of a protection against aggression.

taxes arnt an argument of freedom or economics or democracy, taxes are a matter of state maintenance, to maintain the government you choose to maintain rather than having another government maintained by other people who do choose to pay taxes (forced or otherwise) and not having any government of your own to defend yourself from that other government.

until you see a world that has no need for governments, and trust me we are far far from that, if its even possible because humans tend to collectivize in order to combine our efforts to a common goal even if we have no need to do so in order to survive; you will never rid humanity of taxes.

also the scenario where you do eliminate taxes wont be a capitalism anymore, because a capitalism requires a hierarchy that can demand a majority to pay a minority for leadership, and the only scenario you have a majority that does not need leadership in order to survive is one which somehow a single individual can both defend itself from the majority and also the majority no longer gains any benefits from cooperation compared to doing things for themselves. which is a post scarcity anarcho communism.

frankly im not sure a species of animals we currently define as humans can exist within communities without taxes

taxes are so integral to how we manage communities in competition with other communities and competition is a such an natural instinct among humans

people dont really want to get rid of taxes, no matter how many of them say they do, only humans who feel no threat see no reason to have them, however humans who feel no threat arnt the kind of humans i would like to live amongs in society.\

```"You're all a bunch of socialists!"
-Ludwig von Mises.```

the only way to avoid taxes and generally function without relying on the state is to be self sufficient, yet that state makes such activities like hunting illegal without having the required permits, and only during certain times of the year. And in order to farm you need land, which usually means you were given something the state counts as income at some point and taxed unless you were very very lucky with the life you were born into. For most people avoiding taxes is not valid option that doesn't still post a risk of death or jail. And the state cannot be relied upon to statify your basic needs.

also a government isint an insurance agency protecting you from aggression against your person or property, it is when you only imagine yourself in a world without government, however in a world where government is established for as long as humanity has existed in some form or another, government is that natural tendency of humans who associate themselves to some people but not all people. in that scenario what government insures you against is the eternal out group and insures the propagation of whatever in group you have and the rules that have existed for that in group for as long as it remains sovereign

the state taxes what are basic needs within its society to insure that anyone who benefits from its protection is guaranteed to be earning it. thats simply the most sensible method of taxation.

no state is free to those who choose not to believe they are part of it yet choose to still depend on it

And then goes out of it's way to make competiting with them for supplying those needs needlessly expensive. There by keeping their justification for taxing.

i would state that if you can manage to have the protection of a state without paying any taxes your stealing from the state and everyone around you

you would be an incredibly privilaged person in that community for the community to choose you of all of them not to have to provide anything to have the same rights and benefits they all share by mutual cooperation with eachother

yet i assume thats not really whats desired, whats truely desired is absolute freedom, which you can only get without a state, and thus you also can only get in part of the world no community claims to own, true wilderness

So you force me to use the provided road, make it near illegal for me to build my own, then say I'm stealing when I don't want to pay taxes for something you are forcing me to use?

ive already stated i beleive the united states over reaches, i think you should be able to do far more than you can do in the united states with what you pay taxes for

however you could never build a road without paying for taxes, for instance you cant build a road without owning the land the road is going on

Sure you can. That just causes a bunch of other problems.

sure you can overreach yourself onto other people into the community

but i dont think grenade would agree with that either

im arguing from a hypothetical perspective of a principled state, not a perspective of the united states of american. in my opinion i don't believe someone should be able to do ANYTHING productive in the united states without being taxed (within measurable reason) however on the same hand i believe the taxes should be less and the amount of things you should be allowed to do when you are paying taxes should be massively increased

people born into a state are a problem because they didn't choose to live there, and they don't have the option to leave by default usually, unless there happens to be unclaimed land near by.

because they are born into an environment not of their own choosing and then after 18 years have to choose without any incentive by their progenitors (who usually would prefer them to remain in the environment they are born into unless they themselves fled it) to choose to stay within that environment or go to a different environment?

They don't have the choice to go to a different environment by default.

Because it's possible no other state allows them in

yep

though i would encourage more states to be open to ideological immigration

its the only form of immigration i agree with even though it to has some degree of brain drain

Unless there is unclaimed land, these people are potential trapped by the circumstances of their birth. There is also the possibility that moving far enough to get to an accepting state is just not possible.

there hasent been unclaimed land on earth for thousands of years

theres only been land that was claimed by those to weak to maintain it