because it becomes more dutiful

There is a difference between helping and having a person rely on something

but that is my view on it, Altruism is self-sacrifice for others, the best way to do it would be to teach people to be independent so they can be strong in times that need strength

and it means that you value your sacrifice less.

but that isn't altruism!!!

Anyhow, as much as i love arguing endlessly and repeating the same talking points, its 2:20 at night for me on a Tuesday 😛 i need some sleep

no, it doesn't the definition of the word is someone who willingly gives to another at a cost of some sort to them, for the benefit of the person they are helping

teaching people to be self reliant is teaching them to live for themselves i.e. selfishness

no, the definition has been altered. Kant defines altruism as **dutiful sacrifice**.

that is the definition of Altruism, to take away the act of doing so willingly takes away the altruistic nature of it

I don't see how its selfish to teach a person to survive without the help from someone else's good grace

Holodomor is a prime example of that

Altruism = selflessness "self" not "other"lessness

the key word is duty.

then it is the duty of the population to teach others to survive

what about cavemen and fire

no it isn't

its the duty of man to learn to live for themselves.

one person had to learn it, had peopel surrounding his fire, so it taught thme to do it so that they would leave his cave, what of that then

Isn't that how we survive and thrive, though, by passing down knowledge we've learned?

how is teaching a sacrifice?

people can't live for themselves if they're dependant on a force that can take it away from them arbitrarily

you mean if they don't have rights.

which was my original point.

we need Ayn Rand.

it's like achild and learning to read, if you constantly come to the childs aid and read it to them, they will learn that you will do it for them, and then they don't bother learning, so when that child goes to school, suddenly they can't do anything at school, they can't read and thne it effects if they can write or not

altruism
ˈaltruːɪz(ə)m/
noun
noun: altruism

disinterested and selfless concern for the well-being of others.

duty

dutiful sacrifice.

no it's not

Self-imposed duty and enforced-upon duty are two different things.

that is the person willingly doing it, it's not dutiful sacrifice

what part of disinterested and selfless doesn't mean duty?

both lol

Different people work with different moral rules.

Duty is an obligation, a requirement, a responsibility.

nothing of that definition says it's obligatory

nothing

its not sacrifice if a person puts a gun to my head and says you're gonna work for others or die

Thats slavery

yes, a moral or legal obligation.

the morality that obligates sacrifice is altruism.

I'd rather be able to stand on my own two feet, and decide for myself what's worth sacrificing for.