look, going to be real honest

there was fear mongering and coercion, and down right threats

I can tell you that a lot of the men on the battlefield and even in the SS did NOT want to be there

they were forced to

^

Something looked past a lot when condemning "Nazis"

so it's not Altruistic in the slightest

but I'm talking about before that

before they came into power

In fact, not standing up to hitler and being afraid of dying for going against him, and going along with what was happening, doesn't that sound a bit selfish by this logic? So in this particular case, selfishness prevented action which could've resulted in less people dying.

before that, he wasn't talking about killing people, he was talking about having Germany be apart of the modern world again, when Germany had been forced to sign a declaration stating that they would never hold an army nor amass troops, essentially leaving thme defenceless

Saying and doing are two different things.

how about read a bit of history

When you're paralyzed with fear for both yourself, and your family, you tend to not think "rationally."

Technically speaking, World War II was just World War 1: Part 2.

When the dust settles, hindsight is 20/20

^

Yeah, I'm just using the logic/rationale, that's all.

look, I know about the treaty of Versailles

but the altruism still persists in World war 1

no it didn't

people were forced to war then too by conscription

what do you call thousands of men sacrificing themselves on the battlefield?

"Drafts"

Victims.

and a small group of leaders used their citizens as the weapons and not by the citizen's choice mind you

victims is a good word

@JadenFrostwolf lol exactly

victims of altruism

they did not choose to be there

no, that's not what he meant and you know it

you definition of Altruism is really warped dude

Victims of the leaders of a bunch of governments that wouldn't just talk things out and decided to make central Europe into a big meat grinder and toss their young men into it before coming to reason.

I know, he meant that there was no reason for them to be there, just like how there's no reason for anything. There's no reason why we should have rights, we just do, right?

There are reasons. But past our atmosphere, they're inconsequential.

the reasons why communism fails are inconsequential too, right?

Literally everything past our planet.

but we aren't talking about things past our planet, we are talking about human beings being sacrificed here.

weo don't just have rights, rights have come about through science and experience, not to mention out of baser instincts lol

you mean through reason?

not necessarrily