also, I'd like to point out that Hitler and Stalin were the two biggest advocates of sacrifice in the 20th century.

yes, and Hitler and Stalin were nutters

yes but slavery undermines peoples rights to life, and I already stated earlier that the most important thing is individual rights.

🎵 One of these things is not like the other!~ 🎵

because they coudln't see past the noses on their faces when it came to that

individual rights were a thing back then too, it still happened

because there were no laws or regulations on the markets and what could and could not be a good or service

but don't you see how it was people's willingness to be altruistic and give themselves up to the state that enabled them?

People can live selfishly if they want to. But when they go about, trying to tell me to be selfish, I have a problem.

yeah, slaves gave themselves up willingly to be slaves!

OMG LMFAO!!!!! WOW

I was talking about hitler

but ok

look, going to be real honest

there was fear mongering and coercion, and down right threats

I can tell you that a lot of the men on the battlefield and even in the SS did NOT want to be there

they were forced to

^

Something looked past a lot when condemning "Nazis"

so it's not Altruistic in the slightest

but I'm talking about before that

before they came into power

In fact, not standing up to hitler and being afraid of dying for going against him, and going along with what was happening, doesn't that sound a bit selfish by this logic? So in this particular case, selfishness prevented action which could've resulted in less people dying.

before that, he wasn't talking about killing people, he was talking about having Germany be apart of the modern world again, when Germany had been forced to sign a declaration stating that they would never hold an army nor amass troops, essentially leaving thme defenceless

Saying and doing are two different things.

how about read a bit of history

When you're paralyzed with fear for both yourself, and your family, you tend to not think "rationally."

Technically speaking, World War II was just World War 1: Part 2.

When the dust settles, hindsight is 20/20

^

Yeah, I'm just using the logic/rationale, that's all.

look, I know about the treaty of Versailles

but the altruism still persists in World war 1

no it didn't

people were forced to war then too by conscription

what do you call thousands of men sacrificing themselves on the battlefield?

"Drafts"

Victims.

and a small group of leaders used their citizens as the weapons and not by the citizen's choice mind you

victims is a good word

@JadenFrostwolf lol exactly