As per usual, America was critical to any war effort it was involved in.

If France had not been so damn eager, there would have been no Libya intervention

If Hillary Clinton had not been so damn eager, there would have been no Libya intervention.

If France, but not America, no Libyan intervention. If France and America, Libyan intervention. If America, but not France, Libyan intervention.

I fail to see how this is France's fault.

You couldn't have written that worse if you tried

Could so.

The US was not going to perform the intervention. The President was clear on that. No new ground misadventures.

Just a lotta drones apparently

Drones don't have mothers to call when they die, and sweethearts to appear in the paper in their grief

if no Facebook, Libya would not have fallen

if no Twitter, Libya would not have fallen

... we can do this all day

They tend to kill people who do though

*including, in at least one case, an American citizen*

Libya was as stupid as Iraq. I'm not going to state otherwise. That said, France was the actor in this case. Would I have preferred the US to have acted like they did in 1956 and told the French and Brits NO like Ike did, oh yes. But it was still France who insisted on doing it. We were just being good allies for people who had been good allies to us in Afghanistan.

Horseshit. France did fuck all in Afghanistan. On a man-to-man basis Canada did more. And we don't owe them a 'Topple One Country Free' card for doing what they were fucking supposed to do under NATO.

You don't have a leg to stand on with Libya and you really ought to stop defending such a complete and utter debacle just because it was done under Obama's watch.

Because one evil cunt wanted to shore up her foreign policy cred prior to a presidential campaign we tore a country to shreds and we might even lose a fucking continent due to the fallout.

I'm not defending it. I'm just pointing out the circumstances of it. Iraq was dumb. Libya was dumb.

Iraq was a family grudge

I'm not defending Iraq. I'm not even defending Afghanistan and I fought there.

So we are in agreement. The US government is imperfect and does dumb things.

Right, then we can all agree that Libya was an international disaster that ruined millions of lives and those who acted to make it happen should be condemned and vilified for their acts.

No we are not in agreement. You think it was France's fault and that we were being 'good allies' by helping them. That's complete horseshit.

Obama's legacy is soaked in the blood and tears of the innocent.

This was the US's fault, specifically Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

Well, Clinton, that goes without saying.

The woman's practically a caricature at this point.

Are you claiming that HRC manipulated France?

The US was necessary for the Libyan intervention. Without the US there would be no intervention.

I'm claiming Hillary saw it as an opportunity to get a war on her resume.

She toppled a country to make herself look presidential.

So did France desire to act on their own or was France's decision part of HRC's Machiavellian scheme?

France's desires are immaterial as they did not have the capability to act on those desires.

"We came, we saw, he died."

If the whole of Europe wanted to intervene in Libya they would've struggled and ultimately failed.

[Laughs in Killary]

The US, on the other hand, could have done so alone.

France was utterly immaterial.

I'm curious where is your hated and vitriol for Bush II?