Message from @Undead Mockingbird

Discord ID: 515626058985373706


2018-11-23 20:27:18 UTC  

I feel like this is still focused around postmodern feminism

2018-11-23 20:27:25 UTC  

I severely disagree with that. It's doing injustice to the current generation, in order to rectify a supposed past injustice.

2018-11-23 20:27:44 UTC  

@DrYuriMom what would you hold up as the "good" feminism? Or the last good feminism if that works better

2018-11-23 20:27:47 UTC  

Well, then I might be misunderstanding postmodern feminism.

2018-11-23 20:27:57 UTC  

Because feminism has held those kind of tenants for a long time.

2018-11-23 20:28:16 UTC  

Listen to Erin Pizzey or Janice Fiamenco some time.

2018-11-23 20:28:40 UTC  

Those are valid counterpoints

2018-11-23 20:28:56 UTC  

But first I think it's best to figure out where the boundaries of the conversation are

2018-11-23 20:29:03 UTC  

Those feminist drove out Erin Pizzey, the founder of the world's first DV shelter, with bomb threats and they killed her dog.

2018-11-23 20:29:38 UTC  

It seems to me that some very foundational aspects of feminism are deeply pathological.

2018-11-23 20:30:10 UTC  

I find it a bit naive to simply refashion feminism as "egalitarianism". That ship has sailed a long time ago.

2018-11-23 20:31:49 UTC  

I think we should learn from history so that we do better in the future. That said, beyond a certain point the past is the past and we move forward not back.

2018-11-23 20:32:01 UTC  

Yes.

2018-11-23 20:32:10 UTC  

I am not generally a fan of "compensatory social justice"

2018-11-23 20:32:14 UTC  

I think the social experiments we are running now are deeply dysfunctional.

2018-11-23 20:32:27 UTC  

And they have badly, badly backfired.

2018-11-23 20:32:36 UTC  

The black community is stellar example of this.

2018-11-23 20:33:13 UTC  

When I am a fan of it, I believe in solving the issue early. For example, ensuring historically disadvantaged groups have good educational and nutritional opportunities as young people

2018-11-23 20:33:52 UTC  

There is a part 1 to this video, but, since Dave is always a little slow in his interviews, the most interesting bits are in the second part:

2018-11-23 20:33:52 UTC  

Rather than mess with the bar to get into Harvard, give all kids the opportunity to learn and succeed so that by the time they get to applying to Harvard they had an equal chance making something of themselves.

2018-11-23 20:34:27 UTC  

Yes, that's almost in line with Thomas Sowell.

2018-11-23 20:34:46 UTC  

Feminism was originally egalitariamnism

2018-11-23 20:34:54 UTC  

I think if you listen to his argument, you will find a lot to reinforce your stance and move you a little further over.

2018-11-23 20:35:18 UTC  

But that is where I disagree. I do not think feminism was ever egalitarianism, not even the first wave.

2018-11-23 20:35:28 UTC  

What are we defining as "original" feminism?

2018-11-23 20:35:34 UTC  

@Beemann , well I'd say the vote was a great start.

2018-11-23 20:35:49 UTC  

Equal access to state funded education

2018-11-23 20:35:55 UTC  

That was an unequal outcome though

2018-11-23 20:36:01 UTC  

Equal access to military service

2018-11-23 20:36:33 UTC  

And opposed by a majority of women on the basis that they expected it to come with draft eligibility afaik

2018-11-23 20:36:39 UTC  

Early suffragettes were careful to avoid having to incur military service in exchange for voting rights.

2018-11-23 20:36:43 UTC  

The right to apply to any college that accepts federal funds. Not the right to attend, but the right to compete for admission by the same rules.

2018-11-23 20:37:12 UTC  

And those suffragettes in hindsight were wrong

2018-11-23 20:37:23 UTC  

We learn from past errors and move on

2018-11-23 20:37:31 UTC  

But that's your original feminism and it's certainly not egalitarian

2018-11-23 20:37:32 UTC  

Well, yes, fine.

2018-11-23 20:37:36 UTC  

That wasn't my point.

2018-11-23 20:37:39 UTC  

Sure, let's move on.