The scale is just whatever the legal system is. Imbalance occurs through discriminatory lawmaking

Sure, we can talk about egalitarianism, but you would have to drag me with 10 horses towards equating the two.

Balancing the scale is just removing discriminatory laws to allow for opportunity

I'm not egalitarian at all, I think that people should stay where they think they have an aptitude

What laws other then selective servicev are discriminatiatory?

@🥞🥞🥞🥞🥞🥞 depends on whether egalitarianism maps to opportunity or outcome

To clarify my point, this is a really good conversation about that history of feminism and I think it will clear things up why I reject that whole ideology and movement so throughly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv7LvRhvgNI

@The Yellow King you're hopping in halfway through. We were discussing historical examples. However, there's definitely discriminatory funding, trial outcomes etc. They're not what I typically see idpol movements fighting against though

I'd be curious for a real, scientific poll showing how many women would feel fulfilled that way. I'm actually really curious.

Undead, Do you think that the womans tennis should have the same prize money as the mens?

Mainly promotion of equal representation is my problem I want mostly men physically intensive jobs and women in mostly unintensive work

I'm open to discussing anything, just as long as we are clear what we are talking about at any given moment, because I think we have let SJWs own a lot of terminology that I think they do so unjustly.

In some sense there's polling not for 100% housewife erry day, but for general lifestyle changes over time. Iirc women are statistically less happy now than at any other measured point

Yes, that is a common finding.

Many women now miss their peak reproductive years, for examepl.

That is not just women

Now that doesn't necessarily have to map to their life goals and responsibilities but it's been a gradual decline, so something changed between then and now, and that's where the traditional argument gets pulled in

That is society as a whole

Well yeah, It's office work Vs. Stay at home all dat

Yes, the men are also less happy with this situation. I hope I'm not going out on a limb by saying that these situations are linked.

I don't think we should return to traditionalism.

I think it's a false dichotomy to present the choices as being feminism or traditionalism.

It is

I never said anyone was, I was just saying that's usually where it gets brought into the conversation

Oh, okay. Good.

Sorry, I shouldn't have assumed.

But that's usually the starting point with those kinds of converstaions.

Well usually it's finding a balance between structure and social freedom

That assumption has been spread far and wide and it's been like pulling teeth for me trying to get people away from it.

And traditional structures worked in some ways, and we know what the pitfalls are. It's not surprising that people would go for them wholesale

Progressivism real Progressivism is a real choice but few advocate for it because it would hurt the current power structure of the west irrevocably

Some traditions are probably spot on

I just don't think most people are informed about the history of feminism, which is why their default assumption is that feminism started out great but somehow got off track, just like Tim seems to do.

Feminism actually never changed.

Feminism has always been about gynocentrism.

The dichotomy strengthens the current power holders

So, if we are all for egalitarianism - great - but I will do hell to conflate the two.

You won't catch me dead equating the two.

We got to where we are in fits and starts, but I'm glad that we have achieved what we have. Racial equality, equality of the sexes, enhanced personal liberty and agency, etc. Now we just need to deal with the less savory consequences. I'd like to see us do that without losing the good stuff.

We can also discuss pretty much any feminist author if you don't believe me.

Yes, agree, but here's the rub: