grey area

and there are tons of these... but it seems political discourse is more about winning an argument than exploring a solution

@Gonzo no company is good or bad... it is a machine. The market can attach a value to morality and in that sense the market is "good" or "Bad" .

But people are generally dense, that is why we dont write a constitution by referendum

@Jerm Not saying I have the answer... but it is something I have been wrestling with, because I do not think it is simple

and I feel certain corporations are starting to have power beyond manufacturing and supplying goods. They are shaping society, and that is a problem

@Jerm how did govt make the FB / Jones issue complicated

@Jerm not following how this relates to FB issue

@Roovdwalt Jones has been banned off all platforms now.. What options does he have?

Again he is a cuckoo nutcase and I disagree with him on literally every single thing he says... but if he has not broken the law (not terms of service), then why should he be deplatformed

didnt they have their serverrs shut down by microsoft

in the wake of this

if they host jones

I think you might feel differently if you were deplatformed by FB, twitter etc...

and again, I am not saying free market sucks... just saying that some things are complicated

its is only simple if you willfully choose to ignore the complications

Like I said - I dont have the answer, but I can say that the power to silence held by these companies is not healthy

you are blind if you dont see that

@Jerm I agree with you on the tobacco.... although I will include the caveat that if smokers are shown to put more of a burden on state funded healthcare, then they should contribute more toward that healthcare

your arguments are really very similar to arguments I have with communists.... Communism presents the following problem. Yes, but this is not pure communism that problem wouldn't exist in pure communism.

if we can both agree that something is problematic, why can't we discuss all possibilities of addressing it

even if one of those thoughts might be in conflict with an existing belief?

@Jerm you are missing my point

you defend the free market using the same logic that communists use to defend communism

- in this particular case

I dont know why we got to healthcare frankly... I am raising the issue of FB and free speech.

your argument is that FB is not really operating in a free market

so the problem wouldnt exist if we just did it right

more like... you have 90% of all the guitars.... someone else has the other 10% but none of them can be tuned properly. You refuse to sell me one of your guitars because you dont like the music I will play

or we can skip analogies and look at the actual case I put forward

it is easy enough to understand without a metaphor

@Gonzo This is a valid concern... and I am not dismissing it... as I said, I dont know what the solution is, but I think the solution lies outside of a pure free market solution

"pure"

I dont think we have had a "pure" free market anywhere

sometimes this has worked out well, and othertimes badly

but I think it is naive to believe that a pure free market can realistically exist. (a lovely ideal, but not realistic)

@Jerm so facebook shouldnt have the freedom to have a political view

?

how dare you limit the market this way 😬

I am being faecitious

but if shareholders dont agree with how they spend money politically they could disinvest

or use gab

are you even slightly seeing my point here?

nothing exists in a vacuum

theory is just theory and reality is sometimes messier

doesnt mean we should throw the theory out though

@Jerm nope cathy newman... I am concerned about the power Facebook has over free speech and am not convinced that free market theory will address this adequately

@Jerm sorry unneccessarily rude - being said with a smile on my face

if a printer refused to print your newspaper despite your willingness to pay then this would be comparable

your house is not vital to public discourse

so no problem

if printers had their own TOS, and refused to publish the Rapport because they were carrying one of your cartoons

back to work for me....

As a matter of interest, when last have you changed your mind on an issue?

any issue

tone is lost in text....

not trying to be rude

a quick hit and run.

Do you think the media are empowering Afriforum in the same way they did Julius Malema ?

Even though they are being fairly one sided and critical - is the long term effect going to be an increase in support and donations?

Ultimately should Afriforum be wewlcoming this, and perhaps even leaning into it?

remember initial reporting on JM was very negative, only softened more recently

This Adam chop just set back discourse about a year.... we had turned a corner

@Rox not the point right now.

The overall narrative was starting to shift and people were seeing through Julius, and a lot of people were starting to see EWC for what it was etc...

This oke going viral undoes a lot of that

its like watching american history x in real life

guys like this is a massive part of the reason why dissenting voices are dismissed as racists. We do need to clean house.

plays into the BLF and EFF narrative

so peeved right now.

Now a guy like Nick Bauer gets to virtue signal and claim to speak for all whites. I have never kept quiet if someone has used a slur in front of me.... Many braai's cut short because of these types of arguments, and some friendships ended over it.

Just because he was too cowardly to say something he thinks all whites are.

@Rox I get your point, it is just not relevant right now. It is like being pulled over for speeding and then complaining that other people are also speeding

there is a double standard in reaction and reporting on racism, but this conversation can't happen on the back of this.

I starting seeing the conversation around double standards happening in earnest, but now it will just be dismissed as whataboutism

@Rox all valid points and conversations that need to happen, but can't happen (or aren't productive) in the immediate wake of this.... Just dealing in reality

@lambdalizard 🌈🐲 Or you can not be racist instead

but they will be wrong

if I regularly use slurs, then they will be right

truth matters

or ever use slurs

the double standard can only be addressed if we have a clean house

you can't go to the trial of a rapist where there is video evidence of the rape and start talking about all the false accusations of rape that are out there

this oke undone some of the headway that was being made

@Rox no-one disagrees that there is a double standard.... My point is just that this puts that discussion WAY back.

thats just reality.... you can like it or not like it, but it is reality

This is exactly the narrative that the BLF and EFF love .... White racism and white people want to talk about black racism....

then it is mislabelled as defense of white racism

@Rox you have totally missed my point

either deliberately, or because you really don't see it

I have to imagine that he was aware of the potential consequences of his actions, but this escalation to his family is scary. MSM will say nothing and outliers who decry it will be labelled as defenders