its not that hard a guess

worst case scenario you narrow me down to 40 million or so people

one of the 3 I claim to have knowledge of

i know, there are rules here. Its more for the others observing

after all this was hardly private

What you have experienced and what I have are two very different things, I practically grew up with the military, I understand it well, just like how I know there are militaries out there that practically are organized crime (Iran, Iraq, Russia, China, etc)

I won't deny the crimes of the past or our modern day contemporaries.

What defines a force like this the most is the quality of the people who make it up

I can certainly defend the Iraq claim, search up the US army's study as to why the Iraqis lost so miserably (in the gulf war) , the equipment and force size they had should have performed better than they did, even though they were outclassed

In short it boils down to corruption, power hoarding, and incompetence

I can see it but not with a modern western military

no the loss of the Iraqi military

sorry I take a while to type

not to a violent criminal level, its more internal office politics or the corruption of individuals not the organization as a whole

it is not organized crime, when it occurs

more like political favors because someone was bribed, threatened or was doing a favor and bending or ignoring the rules

the Iraqi military in the 90's is a textbook case of it so i used it as an example

It had more to do with the nation being a dictatorship and the politics that brought to the Iraqi military

its extremely complex

it was less orders with the iraqis and more a network of bribes and threats with the constant threat of being "replaced" with a bullet to the head

and as for the bit about orders, it can be a defence in some cases, a soldier is supposed to obey his orders to his death if need be, provided they are lawful, for example an officer in say some unnamed western military could order the killing of civilians, the soldiers under his command would not be obligated to follow it as it is unlawful and could have said officer removed, assuming it is a western military, this is one of the uniform standards and laws that they abide by

other militaries on some other countries dont have these standards and to disobey such an order would be considered insubordination in these forces

my "western military" distinction was for this reason

cool hope the mike works well

it would take an event on the level of the germans in stalingrad to get the officers to break that particualr rule, they are trained for the worst

and they are people, human at the end of the day, blatant murder is not something a person would usually do

the circumstances would have to be quite extreme. ISIS aren't civilians they are the enemy

ISIS aren't a military force they are a radical terrorist group with delusions

no they are not, once someone joins the military they are never considered a civilian again, most people don't know that

legally speaking

the training they recieve instantly reclassifies them for life

if a soldier gets into a fight out of uniform it is not considered assult, it is considered assult with a deadly weapon

simply due to their training and knowledge

your laws might be a bit different due to that

its not the norm

in or out of uniform a soldier has many more rules governing their life than the average civilian

yes but this is different its more a legal matter

sup @bananaphone

these rules are more to preserve the public image of the military and its impartiality to the politics of the wider nation

they simply are to take orders from the ruling government of the day

but not show dissent to the ruling government either

barring again unlawful orders

being any of the national laws, ROEs, or other legally binding laws in place ( geneva conventions)

indeed

yo

the military is simply to obey, and as i said they are a tool

sorry @Germanmgtow going into a debate about how the military is not a gang

its very much centered in the ideas of service to others, the country, and those around them, and of course sacrifice and honour

its fundamental because these traits, values and methods of operation are at the core of how the military functions and is formed

combined with its purpose it is completely different

not to the same extent or application

its something you have to experience to understand

said corrupt officials are usually members too or middlemen for another higher member or ruling gang

the military is a seperate entity from the government

at the end of the day they obey and are either a knife or a hammer

a tool to prevent outside forces from beyond the nation from using force to interfere with the nations affairs

depends more on the system of government

rules of engegement are usually predetermined by the military itself, unlawful orders and all, besides a smart governing body doesn't interfere directly in the militaries affairs internally often if they know whats good for them

the context and conditions under which said killing takes place is the difference, after all the target of a military campain is usually well armed and determined to kill you aswell

the difference is a state of war or conflict between two powers

usually, ignoring terrorists

they are a bag of debate in themselves

indeed the smart government oxymoron might be right but they know it is not wise to interfere too much

therefore terrorists are more like gangs than anything

western militaries all operate in a very similar manner so there isn't a large differnece

their purpose, operation and function are all the same at the core

internal higherarchy structure differences aside

then how they conduct themselves there might very well be gang like

but it is different here

are you refering to something more like the triad or yakuza?

because they are quite unique, they are more military like than the average gang, infact the title of gang does not properly describe their structure

accurate spies are all snakes, the triad combine the lawlessness of gangs and intelligence agencies like the CIA with a strong diciplined loyal structure like the military

they are a unique force in their own right

very differnt from the gangs or mafias i'm comparing with in my side here

like an intelligence agency

no none knows the full structure or extent

but they are diciplined and dangerous like a military but operate illegaly

the CIA is a dirty bastard child of evil that even the military they are supposed to serve dispises

they are spies with military training,

their funding might be military but they are a force unto themselves

there is overlap, they operate in the grey areas of the world, doing the dirty work no body should see or wants to see

special forces are not exactly standard military members

they are more the necessary evil than the rule, special forces are another thing entirely, the US military often deploys members to act for the CIA, they are not the same entity, in fact there is quite a strained relationship between the two and much distrust

as for the marine they are considered elite, and have some special forces units of their own

its at the edge of the standard military world

its where the dirty secrets lie

regular people, with special training and a dirty job

they are people don't get me wrong, but the job they do is far from the standard military way of life and duty

we are getting into stuff I can't talk about now, and no, I am talking special combat training for special scenarios, I am talking stuff that could be applied to assasination missions against terrorists and drug cartels, dirty work, borderline illegal work, special forces operations are often illegal

they are the dark side to the military, not the norm

the killing of bin laden is a prime example

ah one of the clean missions, fortuneately those are the majority lately, training others

training the local law enforcement to handle the local troubles, like what they did in afganistan

they rarely are, they have agents everywhere

like I said spies

its less about who they are but more what they do and the system they support, they are different

more like why they have a body count, in the end it is their purpose, and core operation that matters. That is what makes them different

the purpose of their missions, rescue a hostage, take out a terrorist, they are a tool, a weapon to be used, a military is in function supposed to provide security to the populace of a country through the threat of violence to outside forces but not to act on it unless necessary

the oil wars, the drug wars, they were more political wars than anything, and the military had to obey as they had no way to justify the orders as unlawfull

a terrorist is well defined in the dictionary, who declares one a terrorist is the better question, but it is not the military, more often it is the governments they serve, the police, or the intelligence services