one of the 3 I claim to have knowledge of

@AVRO Architect I am not trying to dox you mate

i know, there are rules here. Its more for the others observing

after all this was hardly private

I see your point, I must say you are very good with arguments, even if I disagree with you on some points

What you have experienced and what I have are two very different things, I practically grew up with the military, I understand it well, just like how I know there are militaries out there that practically are organized crime (Iran, Iraq, Russia, China, etc)

I won't deny the crimes of the past or our modern day contemporaries.

I think all of them would disagree with that point. I have never been to the military, so I will admit I rely on second hand information only

What defines a force like this the most is the quality of the people who make it up

I agree, and people in gangs are not all bad, as all people in the military is not all bad

I can certainly defend the Iraq claim, search up the US army's study as to why the Iraqis lost so miserably (in the gulf war) , the equipment and force size they had should have performed better than they did, even though they were outclassed

Well, yes. do you start to understand my connection with the military with gangs in this case at least?

In short it boils down to corruption, power hoarding, and incompetence

I can see it but not with a modern western military

organized criminals?

no the loss of the Iraqi military

sorry I take a while to type

So, there is no corruption in western military?

Not a problem mate, take your time, I have plenty of time

not to a violent criminal level, its more internal office politics or the corruption of individuals not the organization as a whole

it is not organized crime, when it occurs

What about your example of the war in Iraq? Both violent and criminal

more like political favors because someone was bribed, threatened or was doing a favor and bending or ignoring the rules

Criminal does not have to be violent by the way

the Iraqi military in the 90's is a textbook case of it so i used it as an example

It had more to do with the nation being a dictatorship and the politics that brought to the Iraqi military

I know, and point were taken. Where that criminal though? Being order to do something illegal is no excuse by the way

its extremely complex

it was less orders with the iraqis and more a network of bribes and threats with the constant threat of being "replaced" with a bullet to the head

All of your points above are criminal

Except for the statement of complex

and as for the bit about orders, it can be a defence in some cases, a soldier is supposed to obey his orders to his death if need be, provided they are lawful, for example an officer in say some unnamed western military could order the killing of civilians, the soldiers under his command would not be obligated to follow it as it is unlawful and could have said officer removed, assuming it is a western military, this is one of the uniform standards and laws that they abide by

other militaries on some other countries dont have these standards and to disobey such an order would be considered insubordination in these forces

ordered the new mic, it comes in monday. my audio levels with be more consistent and higher quality from now on

my "western military" distinction was for this reason

That is true, but how long does it takes for that to be thrown out under distress

cool hope the mike works well

it would take an event on the level of the germans in stalingrad to get the officers to break that particualr rule, they are trained for the worst

and they are people, human at the end of the day, blatant murder is not something a person would usually do

What about ISIS setting people on fire in cages?

Possibly under orders