hey @Je memetiendrai I live in the Netherlands, any way I can get in touch with you guys?

ty

I think I'm still marked as a "guest" for some reason so I can't see it

@Kelben where does that come from

Thanks

The quorum on referenda will make actually passing a referendum nigh impossible

we have the same system in my country

I also don't really understand why limiting the President's power to define his or her cabinet that much

@Kelben

It's interesting tho

The quorum

Aka needing the vote of 50%+1 of voters

It makes abstention = a no vote

So who's against the referendum will campaign for just not voting

Since a sizeable percentage of the people always not vote, you will end up with the referendum not passing having a significant headstart

About the cabinet. I understand what you're saying but it still needs to be expression of a single political line.
You might need the nominations to have a confirmation by the Senate, but you can't ask the Senate to pick them. It also would break separation of powers, making executive positions dependent on the legislative branch.

Even parliamentary democracies don't have ministers appointed by the upper house. The houses just give confidence

@Kelben ^^^^

What I'm saying is that having a cabinet that doesn't express a single vision might make it impossible to work together at all

I'd say between 30% and 40%

@Kelben

No, @Kelben

We have the participation quorum in Italy

it's the same problem

it should require 40% participation

50

50% quorum sounds like a good idea but it's not

@Kelben sorry, didn't notice that I @'d you twice

Because if the quorum is too low who's against the referendum will campaign for not voting

It needs to be low enough that passing the quorum is almost always a significant risk

In that case who's against the referendum will not campaign for not voting, because they risk losing with a ~95% vote and that doesn't look good

Look at the history of Italian referenda

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_in_Italyhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_in_Italy

(the popular ones, which implement a 50% participation quorum system)

And see how many just didn't meet the quorum

Then look at how many won with a 90%+ vote

The only case in which both Yes and No campaigns went to vote is when the issue was very contested and it was well known that a lot of people would vote

Not only, if people against the referendum campaign for not voting, voting No basically helps the Yes campaign, as retarded as that sounds

Because by helping meet the quorum they make the referendum pass.

I hope I've been clear

from 1997 to now the only referendum that we passed was this one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_referendums,_2011, and it passed with a 95.4% Yes vote. Which doesn't represent the actual amount of people that wanted it to pass, because most people that didn't want it to pass just didn't vote.

Also it's problematic because you can see who goes to vote and who doesn't, so voting is not secret anymore, as it's clear that if you go vote you support Yes

!agree