Message from @FroggyC
Discord ID: 451068640079511552
What I'm saying is that having a cabinet that doesn't express a single vision might make it impossible to work together at all
I expect the Cabinet will still represent a single vision, it will just be the vision of the leading coalition instead of the vision of the President. Because the new Electoral system would make everyone hyper aware of how fast their political career can end, and therefore it would eventually be considered political suicide to be an obstructionist unless you are absolutely sure that is what your base wants. The idea is that because nobody likes a government that can't get things done people will punish politicians who make that impossible.
And even if they don't this ability to check executive orders is the only power that the Cabinet as a whole has, the rest of the powers belong solely to individual Cabinet members and therefore they will likely get there individual jobs done regardless.
It would interfere with the separation of powers in the sense that the president would have a harder time passing legislation, but passing legislation is the job of the legislature anyway. As far as I see it the separation of powers has already broken down in the executives favor, this would just be correcting for that.
As for your point about the referendums, I agree that that may have been an over correction. The main thing I was worried about was a common occurrence in my state of Texas, here the state has to hold a referendum everytime it wants a constitutional amendment, which is often because of the way the Texas constitution is written, however because so few people vote in state elections they usually pass with only a few percentage points of the population in favor of them. But yeah like I said, in hindsight I may have over corrected for that problem.
@FroggyC I'm curious what you think a good minimum percentage of voters would be though, cause I still feel like there should be one.
here in the netherlands it was 30% for a advisory referendum. but our goverment doesnt like advisory referendums so they got rid of it
we have(had) 30% and that was on the high side compared to the rest of Europe
How hard was it for an advisory referendum to fail?
well, it mostly got removed because the gov't didn't like the result
but in the netherlands we don't really have a referendum culture. It only was introduced in 2015
Ahhh, so I'm guessing it wasn't part of your constitution then?
nope
OK, well still 25-30% sounds like a fairly good number.
Actually, if we're just talking about the number of people that need to participate, would it maybe be better to set it at something like 50-60%? That way enough people will have to know that it's unlikely that anyone didn't participate due to a lack of knowledge of the referendum.
I'd say between 30% and 40%
We have the participation quorum in Italy
it's the same problem
it should require 40% participation
50% quorum sounds like a good idea but it's not
Because if the quorum is too low who's against the referendum will campaign for not voting
No problem, I was just curious
It needs to be low enough that passing the quorum is almost always a significant risk
In that case who's against the referendum will not campaign for not voting, because they risk losing with a ~95% vote and that doesn't look good
Look at the history of Italian referenda
(the popular ones, which implement a 50% participation quorum system)
And see how many just didn't meet the quorum
Then look at how many won with a 90%+ vote
The only case in which both Yes and No campaigns went to vote is when the issue was very contested and it was well known that a lot of people would vote
Not only, if people against the referendum campaign for not voting, voting No basically helps the Yes campaign, as retarded as that sounds
Because by helping meet the quorum they make the referendum pass.
I hope I've been clear
from 1997 to now the only referendum that we passed was this one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_referendums,_2011, and it passed with a 95.4% Yes vote. Which doesn't represent the actual amount of people that wanted it to pass, because most people that didn't want it to pass just didn't vote.
Also it's problematic because you can see who goes to vote and who doesn't, so voting is not secret anymore, as it's clear that if you go vote you support Yes
OK, i see. And while I think this problem would be slightly medicated by the fact that referendums would not be set during their own special elections, but instead thrown onto the ballot of the next scheduled election, I can still see how everything you mentioned would still be a problem. Thanks for the help.
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