wew so much 'original' liberalism in here

feel da /poal/ guys we're totally not lieberals haha

even though we use liberal assumptions for reactionary ends :DDDDD:DDDD

le human nature :DDD:DDDDDDDDDDDD

redditors

not even fucking once

i am real

also

>bot

hi

Sionistas out

Anyway, how's it going, /pol/?

@Deleted User Hatchling of the petty bourgeoisie.

You are nothing but a child, rolling in biological determinisms and qualifications of morality which rest entirely on what works best for large parts of our current order.

Your god is nothing other than capital and a false sense of what it means to reproduce. You are just like every other screaming boy in a man's body that I've seen.

You speak of 'the greater good' and you scream gleefully about how our efforts to overcome titanic obstacles which you enlighten us about will end in failure. What about *your* order? You must infinitely revise your own ideological convictions too, no? And you must call for the infinite bending of society to those convictions, no?

You fire defeatisms at us, telling us that we can't do anything about our current positions and that we must get in line, but what of your fantasy?

The god of Nature (Capital in a metaphysical, alienated mask) answers to no-one, not even you.

Your scientific evidence means fucking nothing to us beyond possible barriers which must be absolutely destroyed. It will become meaningless in the face of the transhumanist attack on your God.

You will not join us, you will fight to inflate the supremacy of your beloved ghost.

Your victory is not Natural. It is always artificial; this is something that you can never escape. You can act as if you are not conscious of it, and sure enough, capitalism requires this, but in your theoretical discourse, you cannot escape this consciousness.

Not unless you burn it out of your memory - but you're not prepared to do this either.

Your contrarianism is hollow and weak, that is all it can ever be. You have called yourself 'Offender', but it is the Communists who will stomp on everything that you masturbate to.

You will screencap my words, you will post them everywhere and set up a doxing campaign because you are aware that I am - even in this meagre way of confronting you on a shitty IM app - a threat to your God even though you will do everything that you can to try and demonstrate that you are not afraid.

You will say that I am a schizophrenic old bastard. Such a statement won't be devoid of irony. We are all schizophrenic here.

If I'm not getting some of your jokes and I'm being a literal Spede Pasanen, I don't give a shit.

You are still doing something utterly stupid, and I want to send a warning to you about your stupidity. I cannot threaten you in the sense that I'll come round to your home and sock the shit out of you, since I am not in any place to do so, nor do I consider it my goal.

The biggest threat to yourself is not just you, but the network of grifters who form much of the reactionary political forces today. You must realise these priests for what they are and what they want, but also for what they will actually bring.

Death to Nature; this is the age of people and consciousness.

```we just need eugenics and racial seperation and even class seperation, considering not every "worker" produces the same```

That would itself require some kind of racial cooperation. If communities do not want to mix with each other, that's up to them. Ultimately the focus *must* be upon the supremacy of *no* race.

This requires the establishment of a political commons between those of different backgrounds.

On 'class separation', I take it that you mean that workers of different 'collars' must be separated, but again, that requires a sort of commons.

Any segregation *must* be transitional, since Communists demand the democratisation of all.

We seek to build a world where what we do is not dictated by markets or anything else which, as an organising force, is at least partially reliant on our unconscious actions.

There is absolutely nothing that unites workers besides their inclusion in the social order, as it happens.

What you're proposing is more of the same bullshit fucking identity politics which has plagued Communism, while Communists seek to use this commons of having little or no control over the social order despite being dependent on wage labour.

```You dont know what morality means right. If you do something you dont want done to yourself you are breaking morality. There is no grey zone, If you think there is current order bs, something is moral or it is not```

What morality? Whose morality? Why do you bring up 'the golden rule'? I am a different person to others, so me doing something to someone else and me doing something - which for all I could possibly care, is the same thing - to another person will not necessarily result in the same consequences, and it won't benefit or hurt them in the same ways as it would with me.

And that's assuming that I can do *exactly the same thing* to someone else that I could do to myself. My actions might be very comparable, but they're not the same.

You're right that there's no grey zone, but only insofar as concrete circumstances can this ever be true. If you are dealing with abstractions, though, then no, there *is* a massive grey zone due to there being a spectre which hangs over any analysis which you could make. That ghost is the question 'what if?'

What does it mean to do something, who is going to benefit from it, what if something else happens?

And even if one's looking retrospectively, where the past is the past, then there's usually if not always something that one could have done in a better way, perhaps.

One might be able to construct a setting which can be modelled through game theory, or more generally, decision theory, and then show that there is an optimal outcome, but this comes with assumptions with regards to what is useful and what isn't.

That's not to say that we can't know what's useful and what is not, but that there is nothing meaningful about it outside our consciousness of it. Despite the ways in which we think about them, these things exist nonetheless and cannot be reduced to our thoughts about them (materialism) - there's always something more about them that we can drag out.

```It is called "being Human" i strive for something bigger thenmyself unlike you and the other "us". You are nothing but a animal grassing on the fields being triggered by my attempts to create a better world in which you feel like you dont belong```

By *what* standards would it be better?

Communists don't give a shit about 'being Human'. We don't care about our bodies in the same religious way that you seem to. We see them as tools, not temples. Like all tools, our bodies can and must be improved so that we can realise an ever-greater field of goals that we could possible imagine and fulfil.

You say you're striving for something bigger than yourself, which is true, but the point of Communism is we make our own personal and conscious struggles match with every other struggle - not to say that we must all be the same, but that we must be conscious of as many struggles as we possible can and work towards their realisation.

Communism is the ultimate egoism: the world becomes consciously controlled by us, and the last vestige of unwilled processes must be those which we don't have the materials to bring into our control.

```offcourse facts dont matter to your and "us" feel feels. And you clearly lack foresight and the morality to change your and "us" actaions resulting in a more positive outcome then the dismal you and "us" are heading to atm```

No, Mr Shapiro, many facts *are* affected by our feelings, our practice and so on.

You tell me that facts don't matter to me and to the Communists whom I only mention as those mythical Communists (which says a fucking ton about the shambles of the Communist movement today), and yet I am precisely commenting on your facts simply being barriers which we must struggle to overcome!

Are you a determinist, Offender? Do you seriously think that you can derive the actions of anyone from a set of assumptions and premises about the world?

It's impossible to make such a judgement without looking at things retrospectively. The pace of the developments of concepts and our own abstractions - which inform our practice if thinking is itself not a form of practice - is unknown to us at this present moment. There is always a division between us and our self-representations.

How would I be able to capture the process of my own self-representation without accounting for that too - now a different subject who is looking back on the chain of their history?

Determinism kills itself, but a retrospective determinism does not (rather than 'what if's - good luck creating an alternate history timeline).

You are projecting the past and present onto the future, and in doing so, you neglect what can be done at present because you think it's wide-eyed to consider the possibility of overcoming the prevailing divisions. If that's your attitude, give up being a Communist if you really consider yourself to be aligned with the movement.

As it happens, *we can already provide roadmaps of what needs to be done* with regards to many things, from race wars to gendered relations.

```victory would be obtained by establising natural order. This existiance this twisted morality you hold, that is the unnatural thing here```

But your order must be imposed, i.e. it's fucking artificial.

It relates to consciously-made understandings of our world which are not in lockstep with the actuality of the world.

You would need to infinitely chisel away at the world in order to keep things consistent with your idea of Nature, even if that idea changes.

It's not just those annoying conscious actors getting in your way, but the natural world itself!

If something is unwilled, then it's not in your control and therefore doesn't conform to what you want. It might explode into your worst nightmare at any moment even if it is highly unlikely.

You might be able to say 'well, by the time I'm dead, it probably won't have happened', but can you be sure?

And what if someone else brings it about?

```implying i want capitalism, despite me talking about resource based trade and other socialistic and communistic systems```

Your socialism is a reactionary socialism: a retreat from full-on capitalism.

You want to protect certain things from capital - i.e. Nature. For you, the economy must not touch it so much, the present state of semiconsciously-performed affairs must avoid the Natural order.

Beyond this, though, you are absolutely fine about what capital dictates is good for reproducing the world as it is.

If choosing to be a certain way reduces one's chance of surviving or if they're mentally-ill, oh, pity them but they can die as far as you give a shit.

**Why is it that they're not surviving? Because it's not fucking profitable enough. That's the fucking truth.**

```You are dogmatic and bias maintaing a ideology of the sheep. you cant even think for yourself and think evrything should conform, This is facism
This world is filled with contradictictions because you have a cookie cutter mindset that conforms and is void of free thought```
This is cheap coming from you.

You're telling me that the world should conform to your fantasy and now I'm branded the fascist, the conformity-seeker.

I'm saying that we must violently expand the set of goals that we can accomplish, which *requires* free thought. By any fucking metric, the world has contradictions and things which don't make sense and shouldn't be a certain way.

It's up to us to make it that way.

```I offended you didnt i, your feels seem to be upset as you typed all that. I think offender is the perfect name for me```

Then you must be upset that I dared to ping you, maul your wall of text and expose you as an anti-Communist dog? If you're so sure that I'm upset, then why can't I throw the 'no u' excuse back?

You are not an alien invader of any sort. You don't offend me in the way that you think you are; if anything, *I am the fucking alien*.

I've literally come out of nowhere and I'm dealing with shit that you can't even think clearly about.

```Communist will stomp me? Well that just isnt real communism, that is just the jews putting a gun in your back telling you to charge in to german machinegun fire as they have little care for your needless existance. Fucking nigger stopmping on things you dont understand as this is your true nature, being violent and impulsive acting on dogmas```

No, we primarily aim to crush your gods. If you volunteer yourself up for the cause which ensures the salvation of your idols, then unfortunately you will have to go with them.

That's why it's *you* who isn't the 'real' Communist over here. It's not that we don't fucking understand what we're stomping on, it's that we're stomping on it because we know that it must not be worshipped and can only be upheld temporarily. We want to ensure that this wretched social landscape lives on borrowed time if at all.

You don't know what it means to actually be one; you hide behind a mask of utter crap which sometimes sounds Marxian (i.e. formalisations of Marxist theory which have been bastardised to the extent that one can fit it into an arbitrary us versus them story).

```no you really are not that immportant, the only reason why im replying is because it is a welcome distraction```
All the better for me, though I wager that you will be tempted to do so since most of your crypto-fascistic sort are either help vampires or trolls.

``` so you are a mongolian rapebaby living in finland?, why dont you do some drills and build some shelters incase the russians come, lmao you brainwashed
```

I am not Finnish, I just happen to know of the assburger meme.

The central point was that you were going to regard me as an idiot because of some nuance that I supposedly don't understand - perhaps one which relates to this discussion (if one can call it that) and the setting that it's in. You've already admitted to me that you think that this is just a timewaster for you. If so, why bother even responding to me?

Why not do something else?

```no shit you are aincel```
How did you come to that conclusion, O Great Statistician and Observer? I am in fact a volcel; I am disgusted by the current landscape of sexual practices in many ways.

Nevertheless, it shows that you're not ready to accept my warning.

``` no you want communism to stomp me , instead of doing it yourself. Which is why you like communism,, you think this will results in other ppl carrying your load
```

Even if that is what I wanted, then I would need the support of others to do it. I am not a one-person army.

```wtf```

What, is that exotic to you? A rejection of your God? It's not surprising that you choose this particular God, given the choice between the pious Tolerance of the weakness-accepting liberals, the hollow and reactionary utopianism of Silicon Valley transhumanists and the 'pull up your bootstraps and accept your position' sections of the right-libertarians and the third-positionists.

Of course the third of those three seems alluring in the face of the hollow attempts made by the liberals and the bourgeois engineers.

*And before anyone compares me to Rafiq: I'm not him, I doubt that he would even use something like Discord. I am not as well read as he claims to be.*

I won't be able to really evaluate the Soviet Union while he can, for example.

As for you, @Deleted User, you must read Critique of the Gotha Programme as well as The German Ideology.