JF lurked for a month or two and then left 🤷

@Reaps Yeah, but YouTubers you can actually easily speak to is a different matter, no?

```You might trigger them to think about themselves from a different perspective and attempt to change any behavior you see as negative or they might explain why they act the way they do and help you understand.```That's a very idealistic way of looking at human behaviour, but that's not how we work. Everything is about communicating correctly. Literal honesty and forwardness doesn't always equal productive communication. Every decision you make has a downside to it (usually), so it's usually good to pick the one that will cause the least harm and will be the most productive in the long-term.

people discuss people

including youtubers

@Chloé Adsolution It's how I work. lol

```It's how I work. lol```I _guarantee_ you that it isn't in all circumstances.

how is he easy to speak to, anyway? Because he has a twitter? I don't have a twitter, and I'm not creating one just to tweet something at him anyway

JF is not here, he was but he left, not going to stop calling him a piece of shit because he is not here, matter of fact, I engaged in a much more tame discussion on Twitter and he blocked me, so fuck it

Probably already has plenty of people talking shit directly to him anyway, at least when he's not blocking them

@Chloé Adsolution You guarantee I don't either try to explain my position so the other side can understand me if I saw it justified/as nothing negative or that I attempt to change if I suddenly see what I was doing was negative?

That covers all bases in my mind

@Ϻ14ᛟ It's almost like having to be at the grand canyon to talk about the grand canyon, it is arbitrarily restrictive. Have you ever criticized a politician? you were doing that behind their back

Someone you are actually able to have a dialogue with is different though.

i dont think you can live up to your own standards

You can't just go strike up a conversation with a politician

it is just not feasible

afaik I've been living up to my own standards for my entire life

so for 26 years

lol

sometimes I'd rather discuss someone with someone I know, to see their perspective on them

```You guarantee I don't either try to explain my position so the other side can understand me if I saw it justified/as nothing negative or that I attempt to change if I suddenly see what I was doing was negative?```That's assuming you're 100% emotionally stable and immaculately tolerant at all times, which no one is.

lol, i'm sorry but i doubt it

Hell, we talk enough about Sargon here, and he's not even in his own discord

Just because you can't doesn't mean I can't

It comes naturally to me

*finger hovers over mittens emoticon*

Hahahahahahahahahaha

Explain the connection

to mittins

Saint MTK

You both think you are outside the inane struggle of humanity

Or something like it

```Just because you can't doesn't mean I can't
It comes naturally to me```You really underestimate how much we really are at the mercy of our own minds.

I'm not saying I can do no wrong, I can fuck up in plenty of other ways, this is just something I have always held myself to based on what I naturally felt was right. No one had to teach it to me.

the patron saint of not talking about people behind their back

You literally put yourself above every single individual on the face of earth

No

Because I don't think I'm the only person who is this way

And I don't think its impossible for others to be that way either

Chloe is right, no one can be like that all the time

@Chloé Adsolution But what if naturally, my mind is telling me to do these things?

you wouldn't ever be able to talk about the people that you aren't in contact everyday

its just nuts

but thats all i'll say, i dont want to be ganging up on you

I mean, I could say "Yeah John did the same thing the other day and his result was x", that isn't anything negative

you have to be allowed to be critical of people though

And I am very critical of other people

I just do it to their face

```But what if naturally, my mind is telling me to do these things?```Most sensible people's minds do tell us to do these things. Some are a lot better at it than others, but it's conceptually impossible to be perfect at it.

but what if you dont have access to them?

you just stay quiet?

Then how would you know them?

tv?

you know of them

Those people don't matter

trump for example

lol

I'm talking about

People you have an ability to actually contact regularly

regularly meaning, not daily but at least every so often

well now the standards are changing

no

It had always been this wya

ok

Why does JF qualify for this definition?

I wrote it earlier

Because you can speak to him on his discord

he replies to peoples questions

and he might even go in voice with you if the question is serious enough

I think between you and I, we'll just have to agree to disagree

I'm not running around jumping into discords and demanding attention on an issue

Sometimes it's just interesting to discuss certain events that involve certain people

It's not hard to join a public discord

My interest in JF is about >< that much

and ask a question

Of course it's possible to live the way MTK's talking about: only talking about people to their face.

So I'll probably only talk about him if the discussion is already one that involves him

It doesn't mean it's always a good idea though.

different strokes for different folks, I suppose.

Whether or not you feel you're perfect enough to take all criticism levelled at you perfectly, this doesn't apply to everyone, so don't treat others exactly how you'd want to be treated in this scenario, because, like you said, different strokes for different blokes.

I hold no personal grudge having disagreed or argued with people about anything

It's not about grudges really

I will admit though, I have always thought this kind of way but it is only after each trauma in my life that it pushed me further and further into this kind of thinking.

Saying certain things to people can put them off, especially if you don't convey it to them in a way they're going to interpret correctly, regardless of your intentions.

With certain types of criticism, it can be very hard to convey it correctly to the person you're giving it to.

Well principles are important, even if we all dont hold the same ones

Which is why it can be good to discuss the person's behaviour with others beforehand, so you can, say, deduce the best way to present them with said criticism.

I respect the fact that you are sticking to your guns on this one @Ϻ14ᛟ

Deduce a way to convey it such that they interpret it as well as possible.

Thanks

I see

```I respect the fact that you are sticking to your guns on this one```Everyone should stick to their guns unless they're convinced by the other side. 😛

nope, you should never concede. stand firm all the way to the grave

What's the reason for that?

That pretty much eliminates the point of any kind of discussion whatsoever.

i'm just joking

Ah lole

it doesnt translate well through text obviously

You gotta know the person to be able to tell, and since I've run into some people here with seemingly bizarre opinions to me, I can never be quite sure 😛

I am pretty reasonable, so if I ever say something outlandish i am most likely joking

I'm thinking about ending my Patreon to TJ, his discord is completely dead and he barely makes content anymore and when he does most of the time I think he isn't thinking as clearly as he used to.