He lost his shit

the most likely outcome was for it to end in disaster for JF

andys just a softy

And was very angry

there are so many different definitions of property. Ayn Rand describes it as a political right

Andy is just too dumb to realize that

and her entire philosophy is based on individualism and private property

Anyway, if you read the court papers, it's not a surprise to see JF acting like that

That is kinda the problem with trying to argue it, you need to e on the same page as to what it entails @NightOwl

so building a house is one thing

you can buikd a house with materials that you have bought from people. The house would be classed as property

but the land it sits on does not

Like I cant just build a house anywhere I want and say it's mine

Adam Smith wrote about this in wealth of nations

But I think that's what Ayn Rand means by political right

and not a natural right

I would say that whoever gets there first and builds something on it owns it, or at least as far as they can manage it. Do you have a natural right to the space around you/hunting grounds/territory etc. doesn't that fall under the "life" part of life and liberty? You need to be able to use the land, and a part of survival is protecting your food supply from others. So your territory is an extension of your survival. That's why I think it is a right.

so how can you jsutify owning more than what is necessary to survive

As far as enormous portions of land are concerned, I don't think you can justify it. As an individual you cant just say "I own everything west of the Mississippi' and nobody else can use it or set foot on it. Naturally speaking an individual can't manage that much land.

However I might add

that unless the land is contested then there isnt really a problem with owning that much land. If a group of individuals are fine with one person doing most of the farming/food production to the benefit of cheap food so that they can go do something else, then no one will care how much land they are using. The issue arises do to potentially depriving others of those resources.

which would be hindering their ability to survive

I guess to summarize my thoughts, owning a certain amount of property/land is a right, but owning more than that is a privilege provided by some form of social contract.

you can't justify it

It can't be a natural right then

yes if a group is fine with it

so it's a political right now a natural right

owning a small portion necessary for survival is a right in my opinion

your right to life is not dependent on the group consensus

anymore, is a political right

But we know property is

even ancaps admit this

that there needs to be a consensus on property rights

it depends on what is meant by property though

like i said earlier, you can own the house but not the land

your life is dependent on group consensus

you have the right to defend your property, just like your right to defend your life

yes you do but you dont have the right to claim property

simply having a right, doesn't guarantee people wont fuck with you

you cant just say nobody owns this so it is mine

in fact John Locke talks about property in terms of what is common and what people need to survive

why not?

so he meant the fruits of your labour

ok sure, but who do you talk to about settling down on some frontier?

??

That has no relation to natural rights

If no one owns it, then who is to stop you from taking it?

John Locke claims land belongs to the common

that is everyone

Adam Smith talks about land as a justification for taxation

do you think the land becomes yours once you start cultivating it?

obviously not

you can own land and hire other people to farm the land

explain that to me

explain what?

Shaun has had a good take
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/370848320245071872/436144517024972801/Screen_Shot_2018-04-18_at_13.41.38.jpg

I think I stepped into the twilight zone

anyway, at the base level, you are forced by nature to defend yourself, and that includes your property/food supply. If you have a right to live, then you have a right to certain means to continue to live. And that includes a certain amount of territory that cannot be trespassed upon. Now, does that mean people will not try and take it, or that it wont be contested in some way? no. But the idea, at its core, is a right. That's my position.

@franti wow I’m surprised by that

https://twitter.com/threeagainst4/status/986384108711428097

aaaaaagggggggggh

because nationalised food programs have worked out so fucking well in the past

H O L D O M O R

Also,

https://twitter.com/jmichaelbrad/status/986353396595568640

"surplus value"

"*extracted*"

jfc.

Who gave Shaun a beer

obviously profit is evil

how dare someone risk their own money to pay you to help them make more money

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

If you plant an apple tree, and take care of it for ten years, and pay me apples for me to pick them, then obviously I should keep all the apples i picked, even though it doesn't benefit you at all. sounds great right!

BUT I PICKED ALL THE APPLES

I'll give you 1 steak for 20 Apples

THAT'S A HARDER JOB THAN WHAT YOU DID

BOURGEOIS FAT CAT

20 Litres of Milk for 20 Apples?

`i mean sure you paid for the apple seeds and quality soil and fertilizer and there was no way you were guaranteed that the tree would grow or yield a healthy crop or that anyone would be around to buy those apples when the tree finally bore fruit` BUT WHAT I DID WAS HARDER

3 blocks of cheese for 20 Apples?

deal

***WHAT IS THIS FREE MARKET BULLSHIT***

Good I'm a Cow farmer, I need the Vitamin C

***STOP MAKING MUTUALLY CONSENSUAL TRANSACTIONS***

if you give me a cow, I'll give you a lemon seed.

This is why we mine salt on the internet

Salt was of high value to the Jews, Greeks, the Chinese, Hittites[3] and other peoples of antiquity. Aside from being a contributing factor in the development of civilization, salt was also used in the military practice of salting the earth by various peoples, beginning with the Assyrians.[4] In the early years of the Roman Republic, with the growth of the city of Rome, roads were built to make transportation of salt to the capital city easier. An example was the Via Salaria (originally a Sabine trail), leading from Rome to the Adriatic Sea. The Adriatic, having a higher salinity due to its shallow depth, had more productive solar ponds compared with those of the Tyrrhenian Sea, much closer to Rome. The word "salary" comes from the Latin word for salt. The reason for this is unknown; a persistent modern claim that the Roman Legions were sometimes paid in salt is baseless.[5][6][7][8]
Vertical derricks and drilling rig from Qing dynasty Zigong, China extracting brine from deep underground wells.

During the late Roman Empire and throughout the Middle Ages salt was a precious commodity carried along the salt roads into the heartland of the Germanic tribes. Caravans consisting of as many as forty thousand camels traversed four hundred miles of the Sahara bearing salt to inland markets in the Sahel, sometimes trading salt for slaves: Timbuktu was a huge salt and slave market.

Salt in Chinese history was both a driver of technological development and a stable source of revenue for the imperial government.

If memory serves me correctly, there are tibetians with iodine deficincies because the Chinese have continually hauled all the salt out of the region

something crazy like that, anyway

A Lemon Seed has no value to me as I have no idea how to raise a Lemon Tree

I require Fruit

can anyone find the tweet by Nora Loreto were she says that white men are the worts thing to orbit the sun?

I dont even know who that is

she is the same nut who posted the tweet about the anadian bus crash victims

about them being white and male

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/401518861825867787/436094862929035275/Da4V09xUwAEW5HF.jpg

See <#401518861825867787> channel

https://twitter.com/NoLore/status/950870452641165313

We have the best sources folks

BELIEVE ME!

thank you