the trade unions just provide more stability than the cartles

in my opinion at least

like I agree that said unions need to federate, but these cartels are too general and too hard to organize I think

Would a trade union provide more stability than a drug cartel? That remains to be seen.

I guess thats debatable

And, good luck getting anarchists to centralize with no incentive.

but im in favor of the trade unions

i mean, anarchists love some direct democracy, i think thats incentive enough

and by making a directly democratic federation, itll provide more stability to the anarchist society while keeping the freedom

The fact that a warlord who only operates off of drugs and oppression, can provide more stability than a trade union is a god damn shame.

plus, its a justified heirarchy, because it's, well, directly democratic

id say so

Heirarchy is non existant in the eyes of anarchists, because they see it as oppression.

but nowadays trade unions kinda plummited in quality and popularity after the dang old 1930s or so

Well I wonder why that might be.

no, heirarchy is real, and its everywhere, anarchists just wanna get rid of unjustified heirarchy

Probably because stalin had them all murdered or thrown in a concrete hole in the ground.

@Builderelf I didn't say that it didn't exist, but most anarchists will come to a conclusion that hierarchy is a form of oppression and everybody is equal.

in my opinion, trade unions dropped off after the 1930s (especially in the US) after some reforms were earned and WW2 came around, so anarchism and trade unionism became a thing of the psat

At least from what I have seen.

"Heirarchy is non existant in the eyes of anarchists"

u did lol

but your revised statement is true

i guess you just mistyped, it happens to us all

😉

sorry who did stalin have murdered and thrown in a concrete hole

@Builderelf I said that it didn't exist in the eyes of anarchists.

I didn't state that I personally believed it didn't exist.

meh, I still think anarchists see heirarchy everywhere

@Onlyinmizzou Too many to count.

you can see lots of us anarchists going on and on about unjustified heirarchy

@Builderelf You think, but how do you know?

so i mean, we think its real tho

Again, how do you know it's real?

oof, are we gonna talk philosophy now?

And what is such a thing as a "justified hierarchy"?

because then we'll start asking what "real" is

itll get messy

@Builderelf We would be beating around the bush if we did that.

a justified heirarchy? a direct democracy, where the people give *direct* power to a position

are you a newfag or something dude

don't just smear important and successful communists

@Builderelf Now wait a minute.

exactly @Deleted User, thats why id prefer not to argue about if heirarchies are real or not, because we both agree that they are real

I have seen many, many, anarchists claim that all people in power, be them democratically elected or not, are still oppressors.

also @Onlyinmizzou who are u calling a newfag?

my man rex collis

cuz i kinda am, i just joined this server yesterday lel

@Onlyinmizzou I have been here since last january.

so if anything call me a newfag

thats a full year wow

oh i joined today lmao but ive been on leftypol a while

rip

well feel free to talk about stalin with me on another channel @Deleted User

well @Deleted User, those anarchists u were talking to might've been talking about people elected in borgeoiuse democracy

You don't know that.

(also chill on my spelling of borgeiouse i know its autistic)

bourgeois :^)

But to refute your point, they also pulled out that one quote that stated "The only person in power is a psychopath".

no matter how many times i see that word i cant spell it for the life of me

hm.

so my theory was wrong there.

you'll get used to it i guess, its muscle memory for me

but then again, i've only been able to hear the opinions of *some* anarchists, so perhaps my concescus of what anrachists want is a bit out of touch. I've always wanted to meet more anarchists, but I haven't been able to find any

aare you in burgerland

@Builderelf That is quite a tunnel vision for such people who claim to be tolerant and open minded.

brb my chicken tendies are ready

What?

Are you fucking 7?

no im joking lel

itsa gooda meme

but for real tho, i guess I am tunnel visioned, because I'm still kinda new to the far-left. I only became an An-Synd in, like, September.

and I've been reading what I can get my hands on, but there's still plenty I don't know

but hell, at least im not a bernie sanders normie

While we are here, let me ask the question.... What is an an-synd's view on the changing demographics, specifically, more gays, trannies, whatever you want to call them, and the growth of blacks and hispanics, along with the shrinking of the white population.

@Deleted User Honestly I have no idea, never heard that part. I know Marx didn't differentiated between socialism and communism and it's his followers that did, seeing socialism as a step towards communism. Marxist definition (of which there are many more) of socialism is worker's ownership of the means of production which never has even been achieved all together and would exclude like 70% of leftist movements from being socialist.
The syndicalists from Kaiserreich are statist syndicalists, in the mod they replaced communists as the leading leftist tendency. Some of their historical representatives are Georges Sorel.

@National Trotskyist Never heard of what part?

@Deleted User Of your quote about Lenin. "Didn't lenin say at one point that all socialists were inheriently communists?"

Ah.

Polish socialists were anti-communists.

i mean, most of an-synd rhetoric is economic, with some political aspects with forming our directly-democratic federation, so social aspects like that aren't nearly a big deal. Personally though, I don't have much of an opinion, I don't see why a changing demographic is that big of a deal.

now if you were, say, a strasserist, or part of the nazbol gang thats a different story

@Builderelf It's a very big deal, because it changes the very way that society will operate.

@National Trotskyist And then stalin came along and changed most of that.

it might change the way that cultures operate and what kind of cultural values are in play, but I doubt that a few demographic changes can reshape society as a whole

i mean, most societal reconstructions come from science

@Builderelf And, for an ANARCHIST belief, it is very much political, since you will be destroying the state, and decentralizing EVERYTHING.

for instance, the industrail and agricultural revolutions

industrial*

if i can make a modest recommendation i would say just read and learn shit from talking to other people rather than looking to brand yourself with a certain ideology

not to be a radical centrist or whatever

jesus christ my spelling

@Builderelf Does that not mean that blacks, asians, whites, and native americans behave differently?

just cause it becomes kinda identitarian idk

Personally I disagree with the totalitarian methods of communists (it's illegal to preach such views in Poland alongside fascism and nazism) and don't desire a "moneyless, stateless" society as end goal. Because it sounds as utopian as anarchism and impossible to achieve.

@Onlyinmizzou That is going to give you a tunnel visioned view if you do that.

how so

lol I know, I try my best to talk to people but I'm the most radical guy at my school tbh, and everybody talks to *me* about the far-left, so I personally dont have any good local sources to learn about the far left because others rely on me as said source

@National Trotskyist Reminds me of that one anarchist we had here a while ago who proposed to replace currency with "LABOR VOUCHERS", we laughed him out of the server.

Lmao

but if u know a good way to talk/meet up with anarchists etc. that would be great @Onlyinmizzou

Khmer Rouge had some experience with abolishing money, maybe he should have listened to them.

wtf is wrong with labour vouchers

@National Trotskyist Yhea, it isn't like they had to drag everybody out into the jungles and executed them for doing trivial things such as picking berries.

also @Deleted User I did imply that different races act differently through different cultures, but I doubt that having a different culture take control would call for a radical reconstruction of society at large

I think thats a bit of a leap

@Builderelf Not culturally, but by their nature.

@Builderelf i grew up with some people who became leftists and we talk and I read theory, apart from that I occasionally go to local PSL meetings. I got nothing when it comes to non-idpol local anarchists

As in, by birth, they will act different from one another.

@Onlyinmizzou Seems like LARP tier stuff.

Thats an interesting philosophy, but I think that our environments (and by extension our culture) has a much greater influence on us

@Onlyinmizzou Why have PSL stole our acronym.

PSL is Polish People's Party.

like, white people in a mostly black culture will act in accordance witha black culture @Deleted User

They ruled under communism as one of three parties under ZSL name.

exactly what the fuck am i supposed to do nigger, I live in suburban burgerland

this place has -10000 revolutionary potential

@Builderelf NO, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT CULTURE, I am talking biologically, from birth, they will have a different mindset, behaviour pattern, and more from people of different races.

I'm a student working a job, I read theory and try to get active with local parties, I seriously want to know what you think isn't larping

@Onlyinmizzou And if we are looking at it realistically, that is probably just going to be the way it is forever with you.

yeah probably my guy....

@Builderelf Infact, I recall that one person I cannot name off of my head.... but he is an incredibly important scientist, acknowledged that it is very likely that blacks, asians, whites, and other races evolved differently from each other.

@Deleted User I know YOU arent talking about culture, I'm saying that culture/environment dictates your mindset and behavior, not your birth/race

but nonetheless, thatd be an interesting study

id like to look into it

if you could find out where it is on the internet that'd be fantastic

@Builderelf Then, why do we see blacks who grow up in cities, acting just like their tribal brethern in africa, with the seemingly tendency to commit some form of atrocities, be it drug dealing, murder, rape, and more, as well as a consistent lower IQ than other races, but be more fit.... usually.

also @Onlyinmizzou, you were reccomending to me earlier to avoid labelling myself a certain ideology without knowledge of it, or something along those lines. thats not what im doing (or at least, not TRYING to do), Anarcho-Syndicalism just seems like the best path to socialism to me. It simply seams like a good blend of anarchist idealism and sydicalist pragmaticism.

@Deleted User That sounds interesting. I wish you will remind yourself of his name.

And, if race does not impact their mindset and behaviour, then why do they have a different brain and skull structure than other races?

I personally don't understand the racial denialism at all.

This just does not apply to blacks either, it applies to whites, asians, and more.

People who worship Darwin and laugh from religious people believing in creationism deny the basic biology.

That's because black culture is differnt @Deleted User. being born black doesn't automatically make you a drug dealing murderer, I find that ridiculous. This isn't to say that your arguing that ALL black people are like this, I'm simply stating that being born black doesn't automatically shuffle you to that role

its usually due to economic conditions in ghettos that black people commit more crimes

@Builderelf Yes, I already knew that.

@Builderelf I understand what you're saying and I don't want to accuse you of anything, but generally, considering the fact that one's specific, nuanced political opinions are of little consequence in mass movements, the whole labeling game becomes egoistic and identitarian

@Builderelf Funfact: The wealthiest blacks will commit more crime than the poorest whites.

@Deleted User you're doing some low energy arguing here

thats an interesting fact. Do you know by how much? @Deleted User

at least cite one single thing

@National Trotskyist That is a bit of a strawman.

not "an important scientist hurr"

yeah, id like a citation for that, because thats a BIT of a big claim

dude thats jontron-tier

lmao

that last stat u had a pass for, but no this one I'd say.

but this one I'd say no*

jesus I cant grammar

@Builderelf According to Duke University, this is true.

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/03/wealthy_black_kids_more_likely.html

and also @Onlyinmizzou I understand that concern, and usually use the term an-synd as a way to tell people what exactly I stand for

before I read the article, id like to say that going to prison and actually doing a crime are to seperate things @Deleted User

more likely to go to prison, not more likely to committ crimes you daft cunt

people who commit crimes get away scott free, and people you do nothing go to prison all the time

but lemme read the article real quikc

@Builderelf That is an enforcement issue, not a race issue, if people are more likely to get away with them.

its not even by that much

clickbait article

weak argument

the reason I said that thing about incarcaration is becasue you can't generalize taht a group commits more crime just because they get imprisoned more

@Onlyinmizzou "Not that much" is still a difference.

sorry, i could've connected my point better

@Deleted User prove its because of their skull shape you retard

@Builderelf One thing that you have to note however, is that crime is extremely hard to keep track of, when it isn't resolved.

About 2.7 percent of the poorest white young people -- those whose household wealth was in the poorest 10th of the distribution in 1985, when they were between 20 and 28 years old -- ultimately went to prison. In the next 10th, 3.1 percent ultimately went to prison.

The households of young people in both of these groups had more debts than assets. In other words, their wealth was negative. All the same, their chances of being imprisoned were far less than those of black youth from much more affluent circumstances.

About 10 percent of affluent black youth in 1985 would eventually go to prison. Only the very wealthiest black youth -- those whose household wealth in 1985 exceeded $69,000 in 2012 dollars -- had a better chance of avoiding prison than the poorest white youth. Among black young people in this group, 2.4 percent were incarcerated.

it litterally says that the white young people had a slightly higher percentage of imprisonment

3.1 for white and 2.4 for black

am I misreadeing this?

@Onlyinmizzou Let me find that.

you're not

oof, nice ad hominen there @Onlyinmizzou

😉

it just says you have to go kinda high up in income levels to get parity

hm.

it doesn't prove anything

its essentially meaningless

well then.

so, I started a socialist club at my school

thats a good conversation starter

@Onlyinmizzou Ah, here it is.

yeah howd it go bud @Builderelf

I had my first official meeting last friday @Onlyinmizzou

it went pretty good, we had 25-30 all at the same time

According to the book "The origin of races", produced by scientists https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Origin_of_Races.html?id=wLwrAAAAMAAJ&hl=en it describes how blacks have a different skull and brain strucutre than whites.

we needed more chairs actually

@Builderelf I am waiting for the moment when a bunch of alt-rightists come in and start meming all over the place.

we voted on what we would discuss next time @Onlyinmizzou, and they all decided to talk about cold war propaganda

so now im making a slide show for that

but brb for real

cuz now my ACTUAL food is ready

a nice eggplant parmesian 😉

@Onlyinmizzou Also, here is the guy who wrote the book, a scientist at a university. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carleton_S._Coon

@Builderelf Wow, that is some pretty boring stuff.

Of everything, why propaganda?

@Deleted User did you read it

@Onlyinmizzou Have you?

@Onlyinmizzou yeah, the most radical people there is a demsoc or two and an ansynd I converted, the rest are Bernie supporters, liberals, and political moderates (and a couple conservatives)

So, they aren’t quite familiar enough or interested enough with the more radical side of socialism to be interested in it

For a so called radical person, I have not heard much radical stuff from you.

I mean, radical in comparison to Bernie supporters

lol, are you talking about me @Deleted User ?

@Onlyinmizzou Nope.

In the grand scheme of things I’m not tooooo radical I guess, because I’m still learning, I’m just radical on the local sense

no I haven't read it because guess what, theres like a million fucking things written by academics that are meant to prove something and this hasn't piqued my interest before

you'll notice I haven't really taken a strong position on race, I've simply asked you to present evidence

in response, you've sperged out and done very poorly in communicating your arguments

@Builderelf Meh, I have seen many antifa's who are much more "radical" than you, but then again, they are mostly drug addicts, prostitures, porn stars, and spoiled brats.

I still remember when I was in Anti-Com and looking at hulks within our movement who would get pepper sprayed in the eyes and would not even flinch or react at all to it.

Antifa full of porn stars? That’s a new one.

@Builderelf Ever hear of moldy lockes?

I’m sure that the average porn stars just cannot stand fascism and has strong tendencies to wreck police cars

@Deleted User what country do you live in

She was a porn star who showed up at a rally, got absolutely destroyed after she got punched in the face, and got photo's of her moldy vagina displayed all over town.

@Onlyinmizzou Albania.

One porn star. One. Suddenly, they’re FULL of porn stars

Is that you defending antifa?

I had a strong feeling I was dealing with a balkanfag

Meh, I’m critical of antifa but I don’t think we should shit on them

@Onlyinmizzou >Commie
>Critisizes based off of nationality
Tolerant left at it again.

@Builderelf You should shit on people who are no more than a joke to people outside of your movement.

a bloo bloo nigger

@Onlyinmizzou Aw.... I thought you weren't a troll.

The preaching of tolerance is mostly center left honestly, the far left can take a good joke

you can't be serious

you just gave me the tolerant left meme

@Builderelf Not really.

@Onlyinmizzou Did I?

“Not really”

Argument diffused

Oof

yeah what are you talking about

when have you heard an actual communist harp on and on about tolerance

thats just something you hear in elementary school

and ofc from liberals

@Builderelf Well shit, why do I see so many commies claiming that there should be no borders, and all sense of self identity should be erased?

@Onlyinmizzou Let me tell you, when you are in a dying server for more than a year, you see a lot of dumb shit.

prolly cause communism is dead unfortunately

True.

but even then, at its core, marxism isn't about promoting tolerance or some vague shit like that

We will forever see new batshit crazy idea's pump out of the left every decade or so, each claiming to be better than the last, and promoting more degenerate idea's.

why do you celebrate the collapse of any opposition to liberalism

We are already seeing people advocate for pedophiles and children who are forced to become gay or trannies, I fear for what will come in the future.

I always hear rightists gloat about how dead the left is and how coopted it is etc

@Onlyinmizzou It ain't dead,

Not by a long shot.

I think you're retarded my friend

What do you need me to elaborate on?