al-jazeera

@DA GOMMIE JOO#7269 Mate I ain't talking about tito here I am talking about the claims that the workers owned the factories has little to back it, if I went to a pro socialist rally in serbia or some shit, do you think people would state that tito was good? Of fucking course they would.

https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=aPsH7sx7_PUC&oi=fnd&pg=PR9&dq=yugoslavia+workers+self+management&ots=PsCCDb1enA&sig=L7kYILjkdIYVQDp9AiCeoUxGTGo#v=onepage&q=yugoslavia%20workers%20self%20management&f=false
"cited by 141"

You can throw me all the footage from pro socialist rallies that you want, but there is still nothing from you that proves it.

if it's good for 141 other people then I'm sure that it's good for you

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/468443

here's pubmed

"It is generally said that self-management is responsible for the remarkable successes that Yugoslavia has achieved."

@DA GOMMIE JOO#7269 Fucking read the sources you google.

so that was their purpose
what was their conclusion?

"The form of communism developed in Yugoslavia since the early 1950s--called workers' self-management--has been of interest to many westerners concerned with the ideas of participatory democracy and workers' self-management. Yugoslavia's economic growth and general openness toward the West have encouraged many people to visit and to investigate the health care system as well as other aspects of the society. It is generally said that self-management is responsible for the remarkable successes that Yugoslavia has achieved. This paper suggests, on the other hand, that many of the successes achieved in the health care system are attributable largely to the fact that self-management is not allowed to work as freely as it does in other sectors of the economy."
Wow, what strong evidence.

my original claim was that they had self-management

this very clearly supports that

@DA GOMMIE JOO#7269 This claims that their economic practice was labeled as workers self management.

"have shown that democratic control of the work place is feasible"

so what the fuck am I supposed to show you

is there anything I can show you that will change your mind?

anything whatsoever?

@DA GOMMIE JOO#7269 All that the book discusses is the actual theory of the self proclaimed "workers self management" it dosen't actually prove if yugoslavia implemented it or not, it just discusses the effects the economic policy had on yugoslavia.

if it doesn't talk about whether they implemented it then how could they have proven that it's feasible

I love out of context quotes.

that's pointing out flaws in the system
every single economic system has flaws

>Representative democracy

You fuckin twat.

still a form of self-management and social ownership

giving the workers a say in ownership

that is what self-management is all about

@DA GOMMIE JOO#7269 >Our description of enterprise self-management is more closely akin to models of representative democracy than the more participative notions implicit in a much of the cooperative literature
An assured thing.

>giving the workers a say in how the company is run doesn't count as social ownership
suuuuure

I fail to see what this proves

yugoslavia wasn't a fully competitive capitalist economy

>Self management
>Is actually capitalist
Holy shit marx must be spinning in his grave right now.

>cooperatives are communism right guize?
holy shit you really are socdem

would you say mutualism is capitalist

@Deleted User cooperatives still produce commodities
marx would accept this as capitalism
you'd know that if you'd actually read marx

@Erika.ϟϟ🇮🇪 Like it ever would be implemented.

it could be

through violence

@DA GOMMIE JOO#7269 That's interesting, this book actually talks about cooperatives a lot in the yugoslav market.

@Erika.ϟϟ🇮🇪 Keyword could, physically so, realistically? Not really.

not likely for mutualism no

but for makhnovism on the other hand

makhno was a bandit

bandits are cool

also a mutualist revolution would never occur because nobody cares about mutualism

rex have you read any marx

@Erika.ϟϟ🇮🇪 >I like outlaws who murder, rob, and loot

@DA GOMMIE JOO#7269 I ain't a commie you dumbass.

well makhno did murder kulaks and tankies

makhno was a kulak

shut up trot

@Erika.ϟϟ🇮🇪 That's some edge.

what the fuck

"I haven't read any marx"
"but I'm going to keep telling you about how what you're doing isn't marxism"

do you guys love communism or something?

no

no

anyway

what ever gave you the idea that I was a communist

@DA GOMMIE JOO#7269 How was it marxism then?

makhno did nothing wrong trotsky deserved worse and so did the kulaks

@Deleted User I never said that

I'm saying that you don't understand marxian economics

im just basking in the gopnik

makes sense why stalin was against yugoslavi

@DA GOMMIE JOO#7269 Then who's arguing that it was marxism?

it was essentially capitalism with a really human face

@Erika.ϟϟ🇮🇪 >Sends 7 assassins to kill tito

you said that it was against marx's principles

this is an outright lie

titoism isn't against marxism

@Deleted User nothing wrong

lol

@DA GOMMIE JOO#7269 I said that for a self proclaimed marxist socialist government it sure didn't look like one

it never called itself marxist

and it's very clearly demsoc

@Erika.ϟϟ🇮🇪 Funny thing is that tito was never assassinated.

yeah

@DA GOMMIE JOO#7269 Then what are you trying to get at?

I'm saying that yugoslavia was demsoc

this is what started the whole argument in the first place

@Deleted User castro survived 638 assassination attempts

@Erika.ϟϟ🇮🇪 Now that's impressive.

i know

the CIA is shit at assassinating people

died of natural causes

Didn't like most of his doubles get shot in the face or die from poisioning though?

the cia killed alot of innocents

they tried to poison his milkshake one time

^

i was just going to mention that

@DA GOMMIE JOO#7269 And what I also stated was that there was little to suggest that that was actually the case, they just called the system worker self management while actually having a capitalist economy and called it a day.

@Erika.ϟϟ🇮🇪 How many doubles did castro have and how many got killed?

and I showed that they DID have worker self-management

and I proved that by citing evidence