in every system

can you give me an example?

surplus value extraction is a process in which a capitalist receives money from the excess value that a worker has produced

a worker cant extract surplus value from another worker and this only exists in capitalism

can you explain why it needs to be a capitalist?

@Brandod He means a boss

no a capitalist

capitalist = someone who owns MoP

because thats what happens, workers are not subservient to other workers they are subservient to property owners

you can still have a boss

or a manager

that doesnt have to be the owner

boss of the gym

damn you brock

lets say i have a hammer i lend it to you and you make 10 chairs

i say give me 8

does that sound fair?

@Deleted User but workers are subserviant to other workers and bosses do produce extra value indirectly

@Brandod

do workers sell their labour to other workers or to a capitalist?

a business with good management practices is more efficient that one without

your definition of capitalist seems to be a bit off

you dont need the management to own it

I am a capitalist

yet i am very poor

terminology

do you own mop?

mop?

capitalist in this context means property owner

means of production

but can you awnser my question

Everyone owns some means of production

no

so yes

no

god almighty

I have a computer and a brain

my dick is the means of production

so i make money by programming things

do you create value witout doing anything

those are not valueable to producing things in a market

but can you awnser my question

I have a hammer and lend it to you

@Brandod Capitalism is the Private ownership of The means of production, disrribution and exchange

you create 10 chairs and I say have me 8 of them

@herb i said yes, i do have means of production

Is that right?

@R O M S O C アナーキー @R O M S O C アナーキー I like this definition

can I do that does that seem right to you

does your means of production have other people working it to create commodities on a market and produce value?

pretty close to yours

@herb if you provide the tools and materials

why are you ignoring the question

seems like a good deal

every debate with reactionaries always boils down to fucking semantics

good way of avoiding any substance i suppose

I am trying to respond to everyone

I admit my wpm is pretty slow

you are not being charitable or intellectually honest

if i don't answer just @ me

you are redefining terminology to avoid the meat of the argument

@Deleted User how so?

''i own a MOP''

a computer and brain is not a means of production in this context

yes i have the means to produce something

that isn't an abstract idiom you dingus

MOP != Things that produce things

🤔

it refers to tools and instruments/land used within a market economy that produces commodities or services necessary to create value

its like rentiong out a house

Oops

I dont do anything

and I get money from it

Dictionary definition fallacy on that capitalism

@herb to be fair someone who rents out a house usually does manage the property and many associated things

@R O M S O C アナーキー fallacy fallacy

??

@Brandod fallacy fallacy go shoot yourself in the fucking head

@herb my neighbors love renting their house because the owner takes care of maintenance and repairs

@Deleted Account 81241290a0u523 oof

to be able to rent out

bat, I recognize that is anecdotal

it neeeds to be profitable

you are literaly leeching of people

yup, you can make a profit and the convenience is still worth it for many people

it isn't immorral to provide a convenience to those that will pay for it

it by definition isnt worth it but people have to survive therefore it becomes exploitative

is it wrong to shoe shine?

you didnt make the house you are renting out

if you're starving to death and i offer you a burger for 3000000 dollars do you think this is a mutual and fair transaction?

so you arent providing

you merely own it

it would still be there

@herb @Deleted User Guys, we use too much Marxist jargonism, let's simplify

if you didnt own it

@herb you are providing the convenience of not dealing with all of the maintenance and bills yourself in some cases

not all landlords are the same

in some cases

all landlors should be shot

they are all leeches