o.O

No they didn't live during the time they took the deographic data that soviets conducted during the time.

Its published in the book Famines in European Economic History: The Last Great European Famines Reconsidered

@D-H Is it all based on Soviet data?

Yes

Its all based on census data and calculates 3.9 million losses in the Ukriane.

@D-H How many census been conducted by USSR in this years in Ukraine?

Three that I know of

We have some incomplete data form 1933

How valid is this data?

How valid is the data from other census?

To my understanding in sparcer regions its a bit questionable if that census data is good or not for the USSR. The data from Ukraine from what Oleh has said sounds like it has some of the better census takers for that year.

Do you know that Soviet government of the time struggled because they had no valid data from the region?

Depends? Do you mean they stuggled to address the famine?

If so no, they had addressed it in early 1932 and later made a law stating no additional aid could be sent unless approved of by the politburo.

They straggled to address anything. There were lack of data. Most of Ukrainian villages and small towns been so remote...nobody knew what the local Soviet government in Kiev were doing at the time.

Somehow books being published by Soros foundation with gorrilion "data".

What in the hell are you talking about?

The death statistics of the famine even in European part of Russia are unverifiable.

Because there were no statistics taken.

You cannot really count famine deaths mind though this is only an estimate.

And the one taken was done by people without any education who just learned to read.

If we count Ukraine now and 6 years ago there is 10 million death "estimate" with the same logic. But people just relocated.

Except no its not.

The figure accounts for migration and excess births.

@D-H how?

The same way Jacques Vallin estimates his figure using the 1939 census.

@D-H How did they account migration?

By the same logic second holodomor just happened.

They estimate it like any other demographic study based on the available data.

@D-H Like which data?

Do you want the study?

That's all he wants.

Cause honestly 90% of all your questions could be answered by just reading it.

I want to know how migration is counted.

I assume you've read it.

@Firefly#9983 What do you think about gay people

I have, but I didn't sign up to play 21 questions ether.

I did

@D-H It is not the study that types in this chat but you. If you make the statement **you** answer for it.

I made a statement, I gave the answer, if you would like to know I can quote the piece that estimates migration then.

Can you prove it was not immigration but death?

It's an estimate made off from the available data that we have.

@D-H does it prove anything?

You should be asking that about the death toll in the first place. A high death toll doesn't mean anything.

Genocide can be genocide even if only 1 million people died.

@D-H I'm asking if there is a prove it is death and not simply relocation.

@Ⓐ Sage Noko Ⓐ

Just right now on our eyes we had 10 mil Ukrainians relocating.

It surveys the whole of the USSR.

First woman in space 🤔

They better have had a kitchen in that spaceship

They wouldn't miss 3 million people.

They invented more than just that

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Soviet_inventions

@D-H Do you realize there were no government in most of USSR till 1935 or so and Ukraine being a black hole in terms of data? Do you know that Soviet Government **could not** have much data?

The soviets had a pretty firm hold on Ukraine...

"no government in most of USSR"

What?

Lol

@olev There been a Soviet rule in major cities but there were no institutions set in place in majority of the territory. No city council, no nothing, majority of land been distant and not under any account. The 30s been a major struggle of the party to re-establish any form of governance.

What do you think about gay people @Firefly#9983

@olev I'm neutral with them.

It's their business.

k

I think nobody can interfere with what you do in the privacy of your home or group of people.

Okay good because I can't stand when people think me fucking my child sex slaves is any of their business @Firefly#9983

Public and private is an artificial distinction.

How much will Socialists flirt with bourgeois structures?

How is it artificial?

I mean that it is a social construct.

You mean public and private property?

No, I mean as a direct response to Firefly. But that property division also applies.

@Deleted User everything is an artificial distinction.

Yes!

But we use it for calculations and abstract speculations.

I agree.

Too skinny to be American.

@Firefly#9983 Why make this distinction between private and public life in sexuality?

https://twitter.com/rt_1917?lang=en

@Deleted User The accepted distinction between objective and subjective in social specifics.

This gradual approach makes me sick.

From more abstract to less, comrade.

With using more general and going into concrete we may be more articulate and precise.

The dialectic is boring most of the time, until there is qualitative change. It's the boring part that annoys me.

I want to put more wood on the fire.

How something that includes the whole world can be boring, comrade?

The world is boring.

We can ignite another turmoil than.

Yes.

This is my preference.

And mine.

Same

The subjective is ready for objective transformation.

We should really just do like mma style fights between people with radically opposed views

No, no we shouldn't.

It'd make things less boring

You are confusing entertainment with revolution.