religion

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2020-01-20 22:12:11 UTC

in remembrance of Martian Luther king day, lets remember that he was not a Christian and in fact a heretic, communist, libertine
https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/king-papers/documents/what-experiences-christians-living-early-christian-century-led-christian
in this paper king denies the virgin birth, Christ's divinity, and the resurrection

2020-01-20 22:15:04 UTC

>denies more than 50% of the Creed
Yikes, this is nice to know.

2020-01-20 22:15:35 UTC

yea the CIA also released papers on him being a communist and possibly going to orgies

2020-01-20 22:15:51 UTC

That part I knew about

2020-01-20 22:16:35 UTC

Strangely enough denying the Creed and yet being praised as "a good Christian" bothers me slightly more than him being a sinful.

2020-01-20 23:08:41 UTC

> CIA
Which leaves us with a low crediblility source and plausible deniability for King πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ

2020-01-20 23:19:01 UTC

I think it was the FBI. They were mostly worried about his speechwriter Stanley Levison.

and didnt the FBI record him with a another guy and some hoes in a motel

2020-01-21 00:54:42 UTC

The essay is real, regardless

2020-01-21 02:00:19 UTC

Yeah, that essay is pretty horrific and damning.
In his favour though, it was written during his second year at seminary. A bunch of you fellas in here are that young and know how radical your opinions can swing. It's likely not a representation of his later views, perhaps there's later writing of his that would be more instructive?

2020-01-21 02:01:10 UTC

doubt it

2020-01-21 15:53:09 UTC

That's the issue with heresy, you have to recant it on the record

2020-01-22 19:47:40 UTC

Do you think the Roman Catholic church enables mass immigration because it's profitable for them, or because it's a corrupt institution? @vazorium

2020-01-22 20:03:02 UTC

'Do you think the Roman Catholic church enables mass immigration because it's profitable for them, or because it's a corrupt institution?'

2020-01-22 20:03:07 UTC

thats the same thing

2020-01-22 20:03:19 UTC

a corrupt institution does things that are profitable for them

2020-01-22 21:22:29 UTC

The kid who mows my lawn is not corrupt but he does it to profit. If he, with malice jammed someone else in my house to replace me, it would be corrupt.

2020-01-22 21:22:36 UTC

Not the same

2020-01-22 21:22:39 UTC
2020-01-22 21:23:51 UTC

kind of i guess. im just saying that a corrupt institution would do what is profitable

2020-01-22 21:57:55 UTC

A corrupt institution might also do what is unprofitable too. Would you like an example of for profit institutions going against their profit motive for corrupt ideological reasons?

2020-01-22 21:59:41 UTC

I go to work to make a profit. My work pays me to work because they derive more value than they pay me. We both profit and nothing is inherently corrupt about that arrangement.

2020-01-24 06:53:16 UTC

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/668910893769293887/670159167482363914/IMG_20200124_004724.png

2020-01-24 06:54:07 UTC

>furry
>catholic
Pick one

2020-01-24 06:54:12 UTC

because fuck you degenerate

2020-01-24 07:01:18 UTC

>As long as a furry is a good Catholic

2020-01-24 07:01:24 UTC

Aye, but there's the rub

2020-01-24 10:55:38 UTC

Bestiality is banned in the bible so yiff in hell

2020-01-24 10:56:01 UTC

Not even a christian but still

2020-01-25 23:07:04 UTC

Romans 13: 3. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4. For the one in authority is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God's servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience. 6. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. - Bible Offline

2020-01-26 18:24:22 UTC

+votd

2020-01-26 18:24:23 UTC

2020-01-27 23:52:47 UTC

+votd

2020-01-27 23:52:48 UTC

2020-01-27 23:52:56 UTC

that's metal af

2020-01-27 23:53:40 UTC

I still like how KJV sounds, fight me.

2020-01-27 23:54:36 UTC

Not to you Norik but to the other King James haters.

2020-01-28 00:17:10 UTC

Yea

2020-01-28 00:17:20 UTC

Why do people hate the kjv

2020-01-28 00:17:39 UTC

Not trad enough

2020-01-28 00:32:48 UTC

I thought Catholics were not fans

2020-01-28 00:37:20 UTC

They aren't because I dosent include their books

2020-01-28 12:43:57 UTC

which books are catholic?

2020-01-28 14:57:43 UTC

Because Martin Luther needed to make sure that his bible supported his theology.

2020-01-28 14:59:39 UTC

There's actually an account where, after homily where he denied the efficacy prayers for the dead since "it wasn't in the scripture," Luther was confronted by a Catholic who pointed out the logic for prayers for the dead spelled right out in Maccabees.

2020-01-28 14:59:57 UTC

Suffice to say, Luther's next edition did NOT include those books

2020-01-28 14:59:59 UTC

πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ

2020-01-28 15:27:51 UTC

Lmao

2020-01-28 18:36:34 UTC

Wouldn't you need to swap both

2020-01-28 18:37:06 UTC

no

2020-01-28 18:37:09 UTC

Gnostics aren't paarticularly pleased about god/the demiurge

2020-01-28 18:37:50 UTC

Either version goes depending on how you look at idea of predestination in each of them.

2020-01-28 18:53:55 UTC

Doesn't calvinistic idea of predestination make sacrifice of Jesus Christ on a cross completely pointless?

2020-01-28 18:54:29 UTC

it makes morality pointless

2020-01-28 18:54:52 UTC

if you arent responsible for your actions

2020-01-28 18:55:01 UTC

then it cant be said that you did anything wrong

2020-01-28 18:55:15 UTC

thats why you dont call animals or women evil

2020-01-28 21:08:25 UTC

> thats why you dont call animals or women evil
😏

2020-01-29 00:21:37 UTC

That doesn’t sound too predestined to me

2020-01-29 09:25:20 UTC

It still doesn't make sense. Jesus Christ died so humanity's sins could be forgiven and establish new covenent between God and men. The idea of predestination and those who are elected by God, even before creation, for salvation (and only those) complemently makes Christ suffering on the cross and sacrifice pointless. Entire new testament might as well be thrown out of the window in that case.

2020-01-29 10:34:00 UTC

Calvin's personal, flawed interpretation. In most cases when scripture says about people being chosen for salvation it is referred to children of God as a whole all of men are chosen for salvation (hence the Christ sacrifice). But being chosen for salvation doesn't mean you will achieve it since God gave men free will. Not only that but predestination goes against the scripture's teachings that God loves his own (flawed) creation.

2020-01-30 08:02:49 UTC

Interesting Thread on paganism vs. trinitarian conception of God.

2020-01-30 09:17:48 UTC

Nonsense. If anything was novel about christianity it was monotheism, which is why it spread alongside other monotheistic cults like the cult of Sol invictus, mithraism etc.

2020-01-30 09:18:44 UTC

The main reason christianity spread this much is because the Roman empire and jewish diaspora existed in the first place

2020-01-30 09:19:43 UTC

Rome making it easy to travel from one corner of the empire to another for preaching, the diaspora being the initial audience for it

2020-01-30 09:20:47 UTC

Besides what variety of christianity was the one most willingly adopted by pagans? Arianism

2020-01-30 09:21:02 UTC

Gee I guess the trinity caused Arianism to catch on

2020-01-30 10:09:06 UTC

Trinitary was present in old faiths of Europe before Christianity.

2020-01-30 20:04:38 UTC

@Mr. Nessel The variety of Christianity that was willingly adopted by pagans was Catholicism. Arianism was really only a fact for about 300 years. You still had many other pagan people who had not converted to Christianity in the year 700.

I will say that Arianism was a big deal for those years in the Western Half of the Empire.

2020-01-30 20:06:23 UTC

Catholicism was later adopted for political reasons yes, but that's catholicism replacing arianism not trinitarianism convincing pagans to abandon their ways

2020-01-30 20:08:15 UTC

There were more pagan people than just the Goths and Vandals. The Norse, Poles, Irish, and others weren't Arian.

2020-02-03 15:12:35 UTC

@Techpriest of house Roundeye ok now I understand. Thanks for explaining.

2020-02-03 15:19:20 UTC

But when I think about it, can't classical philosophy be considered part of/off shoot of paganism's "theology"?

2020-02-03 15:53:24 UTC

Christians worship a volcano demon is one of my favorite pagan insults

2020-02-03 15:53:29 UTC

ok thats fucking metal

2020-02-03 16:30:41 UTC

@Korin Dickman Plato and Aristotle rejected the Hellenistic gods afaik. I believe Plato came to the conclusion there must be one supreme being

2020-02-03 16:31:16 UTC

And Socrates was killed for questioning to much

2020-02-03 16:31:55 UTC

Epicureus was a proto atheist

2020-02-03 16:34:33 UTC

so no I don't really see it being an offshoot since they saw the rational problems with pantheism. You have to provide more evidence than that

2020-02-03 16:38:12 UTC

and listen

2020-02-03 16:38:34 UTC

i have to question your motivation for being between Christianity and pagainism

2020-02-03 16:38:42 UTC

to you what is the appeal of paganism?

2020-02-03 16:41:20 UTC

i sincerely doubt its a rational or intellectual appeal, as techpriest said, im not aware of any serious defenders of paganism that can stand up to scholasticism, or materialist thinkers.

2020-02-03 16:43:12 UTC

and @Mister_Geocon was telling me not even the people who practiced it in roman times really thought the gods were real, just archetypes of masculinity or femininity or courage and honor

2020-02-03 16:43:13 UTC

the reason you must be attracted to "paganism" is because you like the aesthetic, you like the history and culture of it

2020-02-03 16:47:23 UTC

thats fine, but really it shouldint be a reason to be "torn between paganism and Christianity" i dont know how you can be a pagan in the modern day. most neo pagans today are basically atheists but worship their race and return to paganism as a proxy to their race. even varg, the turbo sped of paganism,afaik, admitted that he didint believe in thor or any of the other gods

2020-02-03 16:48:22 UTC

and the rest of the pagans are like wiccans and other gay shit which is just built on progressivism and opposition to evil mean patriarchal Christianity

2020-02-03 16:48:52 UTC

and thats really the thing about modern day paganism is that its built upon opposition to Christianity

2020-02-03 16:49:35 UTC

i dont see why there is a reason to follow a religion or spirituality unless you literally believe it is true

2020-02-03 16:49:59 UTC

i dont want to hear about archetypes or whatever

2020-02-03 16:52:07 UTC

the truth is the god of christianity is real, Jesus died and ressurected, and someday there will be judgement.

2020-02-03 16:52:32 UTC

if you really like pagan stories and aesthetics and learning about European culture that's perfectly fine

2020-02-03 16:52:48 UTC

but christianity needs to be first

2020-02-03 17:30:45 UTC

There was a wealth of pagan thinker who wrote about their views. it's just that neoplatonism etc. got burried under christianities eventual ascendancy. It's not that there are no sources, just that it died off as a living tradition within christian countries, whereas hinduism for example kept it
People have put a lot of work into reconstructing paganism using whatever sources are available, however now with the knowledge of common roots in an original Indoeuropean faith.
Varg isn't even a relevant figure. It makes more sense to look at the work of Survive the Jive than that mentally ill person
Either way there are good reasons to reject the idea of a prime mover therefore god and whatnot, nevermind that Yahweh is polytheistic in origin. Not as a volcano demon but as a storm god with another god called Asherah as a wife. He also got conflated with a separate god EL by his jewish adherents. For a while Yahweh basically was worshipped in a monolatric fashion, traces of which can still be found in the bible (Worship no other gods besides me rather than there is no god but god in the ten commandments for example)

2020-02-03 17:32:06 UTC

Good pagans end up becoming Christian. The vast majority converted because they were shown how whatever was good in their own faith existed in a fuller state within Christianity. Just look at St. Boniface, the conversion of the Rus, Serbs, etc.

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