Message from @Skellington

Discord ID: 673220117303394336


2020-01-28 18:53:55 UTC  

Doesn't calvinistic idea of predestination make sacrifice of Jesus Christ on a cross completely pointless?

2020-01-28 18:54:29 UTC  

it makes morality pointless

2020-01-28 18:54:52 UTC  

if you arent responsible for your actions

2020-01-28 18:55:01 UTC  

then it cant be said that you did anything wrong

2020-01-28 18:55:15 UTC  

thats why you dont call animals or women evil

2020-01-28 21:08:25 UTC  

> thats why you dont call animals or women evil
😏

2020-01-29 00:21:37 UTC  

That doesn’t sound too predestined to me

2020-01-29 09:25:20 UTC  

It still doesn't make sense. Jesus Christ died so humanity's sins could be forgiven and establish new covenent between God and men. The idea of predestination and those who are elected by God, even before creation, for salvation (and only those) complemently makes Christ suffering on the cross and sacrifice pointless. Entire new testament might as well be thrown out of the window in that case.

2020-01-29 10:34:00 UTC  

Calvin's personal, flawed interpretation. In most cases when scripture says about people being chosen for salvation it is referred to children of God as a whole all of men are chosen for salvation (hence the Christ sacrifice). But being chosen for salvation doesn't mean you will achieve it since God gave men free will. Not only that but predestination goes against the scripture's teachings that God loves his own (flawed) creation.

2020-01-30 08:02:49 UTC  

Interesting Thread on paganism vs. trinitarian conception of God.

2020-01-30 09:17:48 UTC  

Nonsense. If anything was novel about christianity it was monotheism, which is why it spread alongside other monotheistic cults like the cult of Sol invictus, mithraism etc.

2020-01-30 09:18:44 UTC  

The main reason christianity spread this much is because the Roman empire and jewish diaspora existed in the first place

2020-01-30 09:19:43 UTC  

Rome making it easy to travel from one corner of the empire to another for preaching, the diaspora being the initial audience for it

2020-01-30 09:20:47 UTC  

Besides what variety of christianity was the one most willingly adopted by pagans? Arianism

2020-01-30 09:21:02 UTC  

Gee I guess the trinity caused Arianism to catch on

2020-01-30 10:09:06 UTC  

Trinitary was present in old faiths of Europe before Christianity.

2020-01-30 20:04:38 UTC  

@Mr. Nessel The variety of Christianity that was willingly adopted by pagans was Catholicism. Arianism was really only a fact for about 300 years. You still had many other pagan people who had not converted to Christianity in the year 700.

I will say that Arianism was a big deal for those years in the Western Half of the Empire.

2020-01-30 20:06:23 UTC  

Catholicism was later adopted for political reasons yes, but that's catholicism replacing arianism not trinitarianism convincing pagans to abandon their ways

2020-01-30 20:08:15 UTC  

There were more pagan people than just the Goths and Vandals. The Norse, Poles, Irish, and others weren't Arian.

2020-02-03 15:12:35 UTC  

@Techpriest of house Roundeye ok now I understand. Thanks for explaining.

2020-02-03 15:19:20 UTC  

But when I think about it, can't classical philosophy be considered part of/off shoot of paganism's "theology"?

2020-02-03 15:53:24 UTC  

Christians worship a volcano demon is one of my favorite pagan insults

2020-02-03 15:53:29 UTC  

ok thats fucking metal

2020-02-03 16:30:41 UTC  

@Korin Dickman Plato and Aristotle rejected the Hellenistic gods afaik. I believe Plato came to the conclusion there must be one supreme being

2020-02-03 16:31:16 UTC  

And Socrates was killed for questioning to much

2020-02-03 16:31:55 UTC  

Epicureus was a proto atheist

2020-02-03 16:34:33 UTC  

so no I don't really see it being an offshoot since they saw the rational problems with pantheism. You have to provide more evidence than that

2020-02-03 16:38:12 UTC  

and listen

2020-02-03 16:38:34 UTC  

i have to question your motivation for being between Christianity and pagainism

2020-02-03 16:38:42 UTC  

to you what is the appeal of paganism?

2020-02-03 16:41:20 UTC  

i sincerely doubt its a rational or intellectual appeal, as techpriest said, im not aware of any serious defenders of paganism that can stand up to scholasticism, or materialist thinkers.

2020-02-03 16:43:12 UTC  

and @Mister_Geocon was telling me not even the people who practiced it in roman times really thought the gods were real, just archetypes of masculinity or femininity or courage and honor

2020-02-03 16:43:13 UTC  

the reason you must be attracted to "paganism" is because you like the aesthetic, you like the history and culture of it

2020-02-03 16:47:23 UTC  

thats fine, but really it shouldint be a reason to be "torn between paganism and Christianity" i dont know how you can be a pagan in the modern day. most neo pagans today are basically atheists but worship their race and return to paganism as a proxy to their race. even varg, the turbo sped of paganism,afaik, admitted that he didint believe in thor or any of the other gods

2020-02-03 16:48:22 UTC  

and the rest of the pagans are like wiccans and other gay shit which is just built on progressivism and opposition to evil mean patriarchal Christianity

2020-02-03 16:48:52 UTC  

and thats really the thing about modern day paganism is that its built upon opposition to Christianity

2020-02-03 16:49:35 UTC  

i dont see why there is a reason to follow a religion or spirituality unless you literally believe it is true

2020-02-03 16:49:59 UTC  

i dont want to hear about archetypes or whatever

2020-02-03 16:52:07 UTC  

the truth is the god of christianity is real, Jesus died and ressurected, and someday there will be judgement.