Oh, that list

LGBT

I still say GLBT

bi people are already just straight infiltrators who need to be shot /s

I guess I'm a luddite

Bi's get either ignored or shat on

I suspect the end result list would be like
TLBG or something

Hey, I like guys too!

The "Get the L Out" people exist too

I don't understand why T is part of a sexual orientation list tbh

although thats kinda a response to Terfs

The problem with women in the military in modern society is that the forced attempts to push for equal representation over equal opportunity has forced the military to REPEATEDLY lower their standards, often to absurd degrees.

Even at my best, I, quite honestly, didn't quite have what it would've taken to join the army. Oh, I am fully sure that going through basic training, I'd cut it eventually. But it'd be a struggle for me.

Modern military though with how many times the requirements have been dropped? I am most certainly NOT at my best right now (due to a few health issues), but I could still accomplish nearly all of the requirements of basic training on the spot.

That... That is why people are unhappy about women in the military.

@DrYuriMom What are your opinions about that?

because they need to be inclusive of everyone.

It's under the heading of the good Dr Franklin. "We hang together or hang separately."

Im still trying to get a clear answer about the T thing from one of trans friends

like is it sex or gender???

I can give you a clear answer

I actually teach GLBT medicine, including trans health care.

cause like any policy rides on the ability for the trans community to have a consensus on whether its a sex, orientation, or gender

@JustTom, I think the standards should be the same regardless of sex or race.

and i cant seem to get a clear answer

I bet you that there is a women who can meet whatever enough men can meet to fill a unit

@DrYuriMom So in other words, you're against the current wave of women in the military, due to the methods they forced to get themselves in?

That's the other thing eh? If it was a "sex" thing, wouldn't current legislation already cover it?

But people are upset over the inclusion or exclusion of "gender"

thats why i keep asking

like if you want to be protected than you have to be consistent

but trans has changed like 3 times AT LEAST

@JustTom , I won't speak that broadly. I will just say the standards should be the same. That said, I think the standards should be appropriate for the needs of a particular duty.

sorry, gonna be offensive but i saw military and all i could think of was this https://youtu.be/kHcx8bDloaI?list=PLBitIgZ_UvGE_nSHfNDjkxseubC2Kixrx&t=528

"I'm injecting 55ccs of estrogen"

Soviet is great

Sex, gender, and gender expression are three different things

Sexual orientation is a fourth

Women dont belong in military.
And nether does mentally ill people.

"Its AIDS"

Is @Jasse having fun trolling or do you mean it

Well, then I have to fundamentally disagree with you. I believe that the repeated drops in standards just to allow women to join is damaging the military as a whole. I believe that women should've always been allowed in as clearly as men, but that if they ARE joining the military, it's their duty to meet the same requirements that a man would. The requirements should not be isolated by "man" or "woman" they should be "Soldier" requirements. Period.

"I now pronounce you legally dead"

Yes Fritz, we get it. @Jasse

I mean it. Why would women belong in miltary?

@JustTom , then you are denying the military some kick ass trauma surgeons

Or mentally ill people?

What do you mean by mentally ill? I know a lot of boys who have ADD and do rather well in the Army and Marine Corp.

Trans people are by the definition mentally ill.

I'm not saying to not let them join. I'm saying that you should set a clear requirement based on the branch you are joining.

Sure, have a lower standard for talented medical staff, I'm fine with that. But set it equally.

My issue is the universal lowering of all standards just to allow women in.

@JustTom , so you don't believe special forces should have higher standards? What about people as they age? You mean a 45 yo bird colonel should meet the same standards as a boot ensign?

Yeah, I agree with equal based on the job a person is filling

I never said that at all. I said that they need to fit the standard for their position. And not to adjust the bar by gender, or to universally lower the bar until women can fulfill it.

@Jasse, why do you say this?

"Women are equal! But requiring us to lift as much as men is sexist!"
"But...if they are equal, why does the standard need to be lowered? that implies they are weaker"
"MYSOGYNIST!"
<:NPC:500042527231967262>

Of course special forces need high standards. Its only for the best.

@Beemann , what questions do you have about trans? As far as the definitions, we're trying to figure it out ourselves.

The standards should be appropriate for the job and to ensure enough recruits are found to fill the billets.

Well no I was just saying if it was defined as a sex designation and not a gender one there wouldn't be any legislative issues

Thank you @Grenade123 it's good to know someone understands what I'm saying.

I am pretty sure whatever bar you set that you can find women who can meet the same bar unless you set it so high you won't get enough men to fill the billets.

@DrYuriMom because its fact.

@DrYuriMom Then that would be a great bar to set, and all women who meet it, I am 100% in favor of letting join.

what I am against is continually lowering the bar, specifically to make it so more women can join

Also, I'll be blunt, even for special forces there are things a woman can do that a man just can't. Namely, infiltrate as a woman and be able to pass inspection as one.

because Jasse believes in a large state that likes to send its males to the slaughter so it needs baby factories. I mean, you need to be at war 24/7 to justify oppressing your people

and for those specific situations, I 100% support finding women who are qualified for the initial stages of the ops, and then giving them necessary special training that may even be on a different tier than male training, to allow for those unique situations. but those ARE unique situations.

My wife and I had our replacement two. :p

@Grenade123 if you send your woman to field, what are you even protecting then?

your house, family, friends, children you may already have

Your country, your ideals, your way of life.

@JustTom - Fair enough. Special forces are a different breed. The last thing I would ever want would be for a team to fail and have losses because they weren't composed of the best sons (and daughters) of bitches this country can produce

if you don't have a woman at home, why fight at all?

@DrYuriMom Damn right. I think we're finally in agreement on that.

But there are plenty of jobs in the military women rock at. Pilots. Ship captains. It's cool to see Heinlein finally borne out on those. 😃

i mean, if women are the only thing you are protecting, if you don't have a woman you might as well just fuck off. Be nomadic.

you'd never own anything, you'd live like a hobo

but i mean, what else is there to fight for?

A Heinlein fan too? I'm surprised there isn't a mob outside your house already

Oh, I've had those

Like I said, I'm not welcome at my alma mater anymore

"kill the non believer!"

I'm not gay enough

oh I fully agree women can handle many awesome jobs, and a strong woman would effortlessly kick MY sorry ass. But that's why I believe that the standards should NOT be lowered.

If the standards keep getting lower, it'll get to the point where I could best some of our soldiers... and that's... BAD. I suck.

should we allow soldiers out in the field who cannot lift a wounded comrade to safety?

or ones who can barely even carry their kit?

@Grenade123 , so true.

this is toms point

Our military is getting shit for this reason tbh

It was that which actually got me discharged. Had a heart issue. Was discharged because I could no longer be certain to handle damage control if our ship got hit.

Which sucks because JTF2 has to pull from somewhere

if the standard is you should be able to carry your kit, your buddy, and his kit, just incase you need to recuse him. then that standard should not be lowed.

Agreed

Sadness. But stuff like that happens. Although again... Best person for the job. That's crucial to keeping a strong military.

Navy believes everyone can be called upon to participate in damage control. Even a medical officer. I can't argue - that attitude won us WII.

That's why I know I'd never cut it in the military in my condition. And part of why I regret that if it continues to lower the standard... I would soon qualify.

i mean, if your ship is sinking then someone standing around unable to help is a liability

Yeah *wistful sigh*

of course, there is always the turd who has friends high up and can't do shit

https://www.history.navy.mil/research/library/oral-histories/wwii/navy-flight-surgeon-on-uss-franklin.html

the story from my brother-in-law of one soldier who left his SAW unattented for a long as time on a join Amry and Iraqi base, who wasn't supposed to even BE a squad gunner was one of those situations.

Okay, back to trans. What would you say about a person who goes all the way - surgery to have a vagina and very female vulva. A decade later is happily playing in a big city orchestra?

Or a lawyer? Or a doctor?

Is that mental illness?

useless POS tried to get the NCO fired for doing corrective training by making him low crawl to his weapon which the NCO had taken and put far way, saying the enemy stole the weapon and killed everyone, go get it back.

I know all three

Being trans is by the definition mentall illnes.

wasn't there a study that showed trans sign up to fight at a higher rate than the normal population?

What is it preventing a person from doing? What is the disability?

@Grenade123 , I've heard that, too.

I think you have missunderstood definition of mentall illness.

if you want to go by the DSM5, say goodbye to like 80% of the military

I'm board certified in psychiatry. I'm listening. 😃

Exactly, @Grenade123 .

Dont say you are pushing that mentall illness to kids.

Probably 1/4 of the enlisted military has ADD.

@Jasse , I'm not pushing anything on anyone

"oh, you survived basic training? well according to the DSM5 you now probably have some version of PTSD, and probably several other side effects.... technically these mental illnesses keep you alive but normal people call them weird so goodbye"

I'm a hospital administrator

I deal with medications. I'm not a shrink. :p

is ADD even really a mental illness? Thats one of those where i feel like people who think they know better go "this is clearly abnormal" when its not, its just a trait that is useful.

in some instances.

Diabetes Mellitus is a trait that is useful

It's real enough to shove pills down the throats of kids for.

It's still a disease

Same with sickle cell anemia. Very useful trait to have...if you get malaria.

Diabetes is life enhancing if you have long fasts

huh

That's why Somoans have it so much

They selected for it so they could do long stretches without food as they went from island to island

Disease =/= bad

So people who get diabetes they should take long fasts to live longer with the disease or live longer than someone without the disease?

It depends on the circumstances

yeah, as advanced as medical science is, i still think we know jack shit

@Malt_Hitman , actually nowadays they should take insulin

This is the 21st century 😃

"this is a disease"
"why"
"because it is detrimental to your health when you shove 500lbs of food down your throat every day"
"How is that... what?"

That's just a variation on "current year" arguments.

Well we now are seeing male hemophiliacs have progeny for the first time in Earth history. Why? Because modern medicine!

Now *there* is an ethical dilemma for you.

I predict within another 200 years human beings will be entirely birthed with C-sections. Why? Modern Medicine! Women who died in childbirth now have kids and pass genes on that are not conducive to vaginal births.

Cat, do you see modern medicine allowing people with heritable aliments reproduce enough that we may go back to the idea of eugenics in a serious manner?

I'm damn glad of that or I wouldn't have kids and my wife might be dead.

@Malt_Hitman , that's a political and not a medical question

I'm a doctor not a politician, Jim!

:p

lets just skip to brains in engineered bodies that live forever and just outlaw having kids on established planets.

want kids, go to the outer colonies.

oh, and we will rip their brains out of their bodies and place them in these human 2.0 bodies. because that is the ethical thing to do

You're a doctor but you work (I assume) in a hospital and I'd guess you deal with insurance companies. Does that idea ever get brought up seriously? I'd assume it would at least arrise when dealing with people who work in insurance companies jokingly.

Mmmm, brains. (hey, it's almost Halloween :p )

"Brians, BRIANS!"
"Caboose its brains"
"Oh....moaning, mooooaning"

@Malt_Hitman , what get brought up? Why should live and who should die?

money

money deicides that

The idea that people with heritable illnesses cost more money to keep healthy.

Oh, they do

But no, we don't judge

Most hospitals are non-profit and exist to serve everyone

I won't work for a for-profit. My profession is my vocation.

That said, insurance companies tinker with it. But ultimately that's a political debate. We're having it right now. It's called pre-existing conditions.

@DrYuriMom so, how accurate is this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeDOQpfaUc8

https://youtu.be/s57T27M1ZXk

@Grenade123 , as is often the case, this is a very selective presentation. Still watching.

i mean, it is a show, so of course

In can tell you that non-profit hospitals are suffering

are non-profit anything ever not suffering?

Medicaid pays about 75% of the cost (not charges) it takes to treat patients

Medicare pays about 95%

Commercial insurance about 120% but that has to offset the other moneylosers

My particular health system made a 0.7% margin two years ago

@Jasse, you lost me at the "American College of Pediatricians". An organization of about 500 members compared to the American Academy of Pediatrics with about 64,000 members

https://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/Pages/AAP-Policy-Statement-Urges-Support-and-Care-of-Transgender-and-Gender-Diverse-Children-and-Adolescents.aspx

@DrYuriMom https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/bandwagon

Have not watched those vids, but here's my stance on trans:
I don't recall the exact numbers, but there is an absurd amount of suicide attempts made by trans people above the national average. Even the most passive google search lists the rates on the LOW end as 35%, and the high end marks some studies as as high as 78%.

And while I fully accept that causation does not equal correlation, I will 100% stand behind the fact that any condition that is this closely linked with suicide attempts, is absolutely mental health problem, and must be treated as such.

http://www.aappublications.org/news/2018/09/17/transgender091718

We're not talking popularity, we're talking professional associations and their collective wisdom

@Jasse that fallacy equality applies to you

How so? @Grenade123

"the fact that many people do something as an attempted form of validation"

many people =/= majority

The ACP pretty much only addresses issues related to GLBT and abortion. The APP addresses everything pediatrics, which makes sense since they are the professional home of just about every pediatrician out there.

its only a fallacy if there is nothing else supporting it, given that you have not given them time to support it, its not a fallacy yet.

if you want to take it as a fallacy, then it applies to you at this point

Cutting off your dick, and cutting hole between your legs doesnt change your sex.
Any more than chaning logos in car changes car manufacuer.

Bandwagon fallacy does not apply when talking about a legitimate and accepted organization of professionals who have a reasonable understanding and take on the matter.

That being said, if you disagree with the stated professionals, you might call such a statement an https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority
However, do read the caveats as described on the site.

"nor is it reasonable to disregard the claims of experts who have a demonstrated depth of knowledge unless one has a similar level of understanding and/or access to empirical evidence."

@Jasse, I think it speaks to the intensity with which such people experience whatever they are experiencing

@JustTom i was wondering why he went to bandwagon and not authority

*shrugs* No idea, but I corrected it.

If someone spends $100,000 of their own money and perseveres through humiliation and hardship, can't you give them some credit for the validity of their experience?

Is buying into Star citizen a mental illness

wait, bad example

lol

it might be

Yes

Yes it is

Bwahahahaha

I managed to dodge that bullet

I have other addictions

Why would society play along with peoples mentall illnes?

Don't get me wrong, if you bought in early and didn't know the shitstorm it was going to be, you can be forgiven, but now? XD

If it's not hurting anyone, @Jasse , why not?

idk, why do we play along with religion?

Good one

Oh wait

I'm religious

Sigh

Honestly I think its just another Peter Molyneux hype thing

Cat, what's your definition of hurt?

The guy behind SC is pretty much another PM. Except he actually believes in himself.

maybe, perhaps, because what is defined as a mental illness and what is not can be cultural rather than scientific?

While Peter just keeps lying his ass off about his projects. He did make good games, but he overhyped them like hell.

@Malt_Hitman , I see it as an issue of liberty

i think its just people trying to be nice

Trans peopme are hurting healt of the nation.

Believing your sex is something it demonstrably isn't is a denial of reality and is a form of mental illness, yes.

Just like if someone believed they were a dog.

Some end up becoming too nice. But thats dependent on you.

Or a chair.

no, pretty sure its politicians that are hurting the nation. Like always

Like you know, a very forgiving parent.

ANd you get a spoiled child or a greatful one.

How does trans "hurt the health of the nation"? I'm not speaking of individuals, I'm speaking of the entire class.

Funnily enough trans people at least the vocal ones

Consider themselves a separate class.

because jewish plot...somehow

maybe the chemicals in the water that turn the frogs gay

That movement litterally casrates children.

Honestly, pragmatically they do "harm" the nation.

@Bookworm, what reality is being denied?

So we depend on society to make up for it.

@DrYuriMom their body. And their sex.

Carot

@Jasse, no one is castrating children. At least not in the US. Surgery is not an option until the age of consent.

If a guy is gonna permanently remove themselves from the potential gene pool. Someone else can be counted on to take the place.

I think trans is a mental illness, but bluntly ignoring it or discrediting it is not the solution to it. For those who are fully invested into it, I can support calling them by their selected gender. For those NPCs who are shovelling all this no-gender or multi-gender zhi ziggy bobado, fuck off.

Scientifically speaking, transgender individuals who've reasonably gone through the process to declare themselves and show they actually stand by their beliefs have had proper scientific studies done and a large variety of their physical attributes, especially brain chemistry, often support that they are genuinely trying to be more aligned with the opposite sex of their genes.

So while I still believe this is a disorder and it needs to be treated, I will respect them.

The same way I would respect someone with PTSD.

@GingaBomber , or there's sperm or egg feezing

Actually, while that hasnt happened yet, we have parents "encouraging" kids to come out

@DrYuriMom puberty blokers castrate children.

The entire thing behind the "deadnaming" B.S. for one. People claiming that their given name by their parents after birth should be made inaccessable is most bizzare.

No, ignoring mental illness is almost never a good idea.

Recognition and treatment is preferred.

And also cases of trans activists advocating for kids to undergo sex change surgery or using pills

@Jasse, puberty blockers are temporary. Just stop the drugs and BOOM, puberty happens

@Jasse you mean sterilize

@JustTom , I respect your perspective, sir. thank you.

Honestly to them, regardless of the term, you mean making their reproductive parts useless

Castration is literally chopping the balls off

don't really think its a good idea to giving much of anything to kids unless absolutely required to keep them from suffering major harm, but thats just me,

@Aktriaz no. Castrate.

and i'm one of those crazies who thinks we use too many meds on everyone

Eh just stick with the best word. Mutiliate.

It covers all the bases.

@DrYuriMom No, that's not how it works. I know this very clearly, one of my aunts decided to give her two sons those things, and... one of them is so fucked up in the head it's insane, and the other, while being a stable member of society in some ways, has very clearly missed puberty and never going to get it.

Castrate only applies to boys/

@Aktriaz it can be done cemically. Or with drugs. Like in this case