Shouldn't we be concerned about the number of people we're bringing in when multiple job sectors will see shrinkage?

And yeah marriages have been fucked for decades now haven't they?

Rising divorce rates, declining engagement rates

when you get into your 30s, the dating market is almost entirely single moms.

those who aren't single moms either aren't dating or have some other arrangement.

I married at 19 and have been married for 29 years. Had two kid. Despite what you may think of my life choices, we're not part of this problem.

:p

i think you qualify as a special case, no offense.

I think you miss a lot of "special cases" because we're not the noisy ones

If the noisy ones would STFU you'd see there are a lot of normal people in the GLBT community

sure. but the GLBT community is very small.

True

But many of us are doing our part to preserve marriage and pop out babies

Just sayin'

that's great, but we need the other 95%+ to do the same

and they aren't

at all

No doubt

and getting worse

Marriage is broken. I just like to point out that GLBT folks aren't the ones who broke it.

I'm happy to do my part to help fix it

again, you're kind of a special case. even within this small minority, only a minority of such unions are capable of producing children.

what i'm trying to say here is that this is not really about GLBT at all.

this is about boring straight people not forming couples.

Funny story, I'll be going to my 30th high school reunion next year. During the festivities there will be a projector showing pictures from our time in school. My wife and I are the only couple who went to my senior prom who are still together. :-)

And yes, you are right, it's not about GLBT at all. I'm just sensitive because I've been called "the destroyer of the family" by divorcees. It's a sore spot.

GLBT is a tiny fraction of the population. If the entire community married and had kids, they'd barely dent the statistics if at all. The main effects are elsewhere. I don't get why we're obsessing over this part at all.

Like i said, just sensitive. I'll stop on that topic. But anyway, who cares if the population shrinks if automation will keep the consumer economy chugging along just fine?

I think Japan is leading the way showing us how it can be done

Even if they're being weird about it

I'm not convinced the economy will keep chugging along.

Japan is very concerned about it's birthrate and was mired in a recession for decades.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/293183044653809664/514155865834520587/image0.png

probably the driving factor is that women are financially independent to the point of being able to maintain middle-class lifestyles on their own income. since they don't have any major financial motivation for entering into a stable long-term couple, they have the luxury of being much choosier over a mate.

they also are deeply in debt and as the population shrinks, that debt becomes more dire as it becomes more concentrated.

Is that a problem, Atkins?

Men can be choosy too

from a societal collapse perspective, yes that's a problem. and no, men are not as choosy as women. OKCupid and Tinder stats demonstrate.

The women would reverse that argument, Atkins. They'd claim the men are falling behind and there's no one worth marrying anymore.

But it's very likely related.

For much of history women got given no choice in marriage. They were chattel to be sold off to the highest bidder to their fathers. I kinda don't mind this having a choice thing.

I don't think anyone's arguing that should be the case 10th.

it's not feasible for all men to be doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc, who make $150k/yr. that's always going to be a small pool of men.

Does the ability to be more choosy also typically carry over to unfaithfulness? For both sexes?

Open relationships are toxic waste

I have seen that over and over

The millenial men have fallen behind. Childless millenial women outearn millenial men something like 15% on average. They're also more educated.

Fidelity is mana to a marriage

Look at that recent vid Tim had about increasing unemployment among white millenial men. Tim's explanations are all wrong, but the numbers are fact,

Agreed, 10th. Open relationships inevitably break into a hierarchy and endless competition for attention.

I hear people saying that women don't like men who make less than them, but I know several men married to women who make more than them and both members of the couple profess to be happy.

That's a selection bias though.

Possibly

You've only found them after they were coupled.

the solution to the problem cannot be that all men must increase their income by an additional $50k/year

Agreed

I wonder if that could be a generational thing too and what other factors come into play

because that just leads to 'muh wage gap'

I know my sister complains about not finding any "suitable" men.

And she gets all sorts of suitors.

that's what i'm trying to get at. the choosiness problem.

in the past, when stable couples were the norm, forming a couple was a necessary economic arrangement. neither partner alone was capable of having a middle class lifestyle on their own.

Hyper-pickyness so picky nothing is good enough

but now that they are, there's no impetus for women to settle. they can just keep waiting for Mr. Perfect six-figures.

Let them wait. They can't biologically wait forever.

Maybe they'll find him. But odds are they'll just fritter away their child-bearing years in a series of flings.

Or become a single mom.

The series of flings seems to be the norm. You read lots of articles in places like the NYTimes about freezing eggs and things too.

I got a feeling alot of millenial men are also just not as interested in playing the game. Or they play it differently too. Why commit when everything is so transient?

Then you get to the MGTOW types.

Probably a lot of regular guys who give up to despair.

That's from OKCupid's data.

Probably. I gave up a long time ago myself.

I've got better things to do than chase people who don't want to be chased.

Online Dating is awful

also, I doubt OKcupid has the proper rating for most women in their data

"The first words of their bio are I am a fun loving girl who loves her family and the guy went into coma after reading those words"

Women don't usually find men physically attractive. That *used* to not be a problem.

Is that because money was invovled back then?

Money and skills, yes. Provisions for the woman, so that she might focus on other things she cared about, traditionally family and the local society.

But now, most women just work a job like a man, so...really, what do they need a man for?

The opposite is true as well though

What does a guy really need a girl for?

Do you really want to be with someone who's with you for your money?

Me? Not really

not that I have any to begin with "{

😛

Children would be the main thing.

Well, so long as you don't mind societal collapse none of this is really an issue.

Sorry, that was for Bookworm.

We can all enter old age and infirmity as attachmentless singletons and hope our nurses aren't too cruel.

Maybe if we're lucky they'll speak English.

Like our kids

won't just stick us in nursing homes anyways

All of my grandparents died in their own homes.

Enter old age? I don't plan to live that long.

I have no idea bout my family.

one noped out at 8 the other at 18

Did they 'nope' out with one of those 'projectile devices'?

No