Castration doesn't stop rapists btw

Download the criminal's consciousness and then if they're exonerated just upload to a robo body. No big deal

@Beemann sadly thats true

the framed point i mean

They're both true

But really it's far more expensive the way the US handles the death penalty to go through with that than life in prison

i dont know about the 2nd one so i cant say either way

@Beemann whats the longest someone has been imprisoned and then pardoned for being falsely framed

They chemically castrated a rapist and he went after women with implements instead of his now dead johnson

Decades iirc

im not talking about chemical

im talking about with bricks

Cutting it off does the same thing

then death for reafenders

yes, but how many? if the max is like 50 years, then just go 50 years than death.

The death penalty carries a lot of fucking safe checks as it should, and the cost of all that ends up being more expensive than life

we have people who have been on death row who are innocent, how is this any different?

@Schedrevka ive heard that being said yeah

and if you kept someone in prison for half their life, maybe it would have been better off killing them, then giving surviving family money if he is found innocent.

@Grenade123 i 100% agree with you there

And as good a our justice system is in comparison to most of human history there still are mistakes that are made, and making a mistake with the death penalty is far too big a risk to take for too little to gain.

I don't agree with the death penalty just because of the possibility of innocence

We HAVE found people to be innocent after their executions.

what good is releasing a man in his 80s just to live in poverty until death AND be a drain on society.

and his family

And what is to be gained from an execution? Some people feel slightly better that a dude is dead?

id rather get executed and my family get paid than rotting in a prison

@Schedrevka doesn't cost tax payer money, and you are not torturing a person anymore

well you could ebay off pulling the switch and put it on pay per view to pay off some of the deficit

If you're following due process of course it costs tax payer money. More than life in prison.

if they are guilty, you literally keep them confided to a box the rest of their life, no freedom, no future. But you won't let them die and move on.

make australia a prison again lol

and now you have to pay for their room and board.

to an extent, that is better than life in prison.

I wouldn't be entirely opposed to allowing those with a life sentence to choose euthanasian.

@Schedrevka I thought the same at first

#makeMarsAPenalColony

hehe penal

but then you have the cases where they are mentally "incentivised" to choose it

The argument I've seen against euthanasia that makes the most sense to me is that people with severe mental issues can't properly consent, and if you are suicidal you have severe mental issues.

you will have severe mental issues if they want you to

roll on Heinleinian government

either you torture a man who deserves it for years, in which case you are still torturing a man, or you torture an innocent man, in which case you have already destroyed his future if too much time has past so now you are releasing him to even more torture via poverty.

and the social consequenses of being imprisioned even if found innocent are perminent

once you have jailed an innocent man for 50 years, you have already done too much damage. So make that the min time before death is applied.

or something like that.

So what, because there's no perfect option we shouldn't try at all?

we should always try

he's just saying that we should kill everyone that is sentenced for more than 2 decades. At least that's my interpretation of what @Grenade123 is saying

And I don't think it's entirely fair to classify incarceration as torture.

What if the guy doesn't want to die?

What if he's found innocent 10 years in?

no, AFTER they have served 50 years

Why?

How did you choose this as the cut off point?

well, we could hash out the exact number

itll never be perfect

but we should try ^^

i'd go with 10-20 years before execution. i think 50 is to long

this is just based on if you have taken half their life in years torturing them, they are probably too old to really live life anymore. They will have a hard time getting a job, even if they were jailed in their 20s. And they will just be a drain on any family they have left. assuming they even talk to them anymore

Who are you to choose when it's OK to execute people?

who are you to choose to keep someone confined to a box for their entire life?

how is that at all better

I'm not. And most would say it's a lot better

is it?

you know that your argument kinda falls flat as life expectancy increases right?

That's a matter of opinion isn't it

and knowing your children are suffering because you are in prison would be torture

But if you kill someone you're taking away anyone's choice who wants to live

@.B then you increase the time given to find innocence.

or find the max time after the fact innocence has been found.

I don't like that we don't have a better option than jail. I don't. That doesn't mean I'm OK with execution.

why are you determined to kill them?

grenades point is that after being imprisoned for that long they wont have a life left.

because they A) cost money B) i don't find torture better than killing

jail != torture

But execution costs more money if you give them due process

The standard for execution is much higher than jailing

as it should be

find me innocent after 10 years okay cool. now you have to fix the damage thats done to my family. if you kill me they at least get a fat payout

I don't want to live in a country with a gulag where we can just drag people out to put a bullet in them because some people think that's fine

you would still be alive after 10 years servered tho

@Jes nice way to incentive the family killing you

im talking about being excuted for a crime i didnt commit

or are you determined to strawman my idea by remove that "min time severed" requirement.

@Jes exactly

got 50 years to find you innocent.

The minimum time served is entirely arbitrary based on your personal opinion.

Just because we have to limit some freedoms in extreme cases it doesn't mean we should go further.

well i dont know any parents that wouldnt die for their children

hey, like i said, i'd prefer exile.

@Jes sounds like a good way to scam the state for finantial profit

exile would be good

but there is no where left to do that is there?

well, maybe the poles

There are plenty of uninhabited islands

hey its a fair point @.B some people would try to manipulate it

large enough to give them a fighting chance?

I do think exile would be an alternative in the future

Yes