I don't live in Europe either

im not saying that

im just saying that if I was in the EU

id take care of EU ppls first

EU has labour laws. Minimum wage

for all countries?

It will always cost considerably more

Are you seriously arguing that China couldn't produce for its own domestic consumption if the US export market dries up?

not me

I think Beemann is.

Cost of living is also higher

I'm saying China would not produce as much as it does for domestic usage

and we need not be melodramatic. The avg Russian makes less than the Avg Chinese person

Which means you're cutting down on jobs

Russia isn't EU

neither is China

And as far as I'm aware every EU nation has min wage

You advocated moving labour to the EU

Why would an EU citizen want to outsource to Russia instead of China?

they wouldn't

Uh, China has 1.6 billion domestic consumers.

Rus. has terrible infrastructure

China currently produces for itself and multiple other countries

X > X-Y

I'd also point out that the people working in sweatshops aren't exactly going to pick up the slack on consumption

I'm arguing for the defense of EU citizens though

C+NX > C is obvious but beside the point. It's up to China to decide how quickly it shifts NX into C.

Make sweatshops Nike again.

>you have enough factories to produce for multiple other consumer states, including some of the richest nations on the planet
>lol make that up with your own population alone, including the people you pay poorly

@m1 Why do EU citizens matter more

It sounds like a new mandate to grow a consumption-based economy would make sweatshop labor untenable in China. What's not to like about that situation?

Than Chinese?

>would make sweatshop labour untenable
How so? They can't trade with you and now need to produce less. People will just starve

The Chinese should act in their best interests same with the Europeans

i agree

No, they need to grow to produce more for their own people. The same way the West did a century ago.

They are just in the middle class trap

>they will need to produce more for their own people
They *overproduce*. That's why they can sell shit off

https://youtu.be/9uKYYQAgJDg

They don't overproduce, they underconsume.

that is correct

China also does not have a history of pursuing policies that cause fewer people to starve

The problem seems more innately philosophical

China killed over 100 million people pursuing policies

So the notion that a reconsolidated Chinese government is going to suddenly uproot itself for people whose houses they bulldoze is fairytale tier

Yup

ever hear the story of Mao killing the birds?

I have

My point is that your empathetic policy isn't especially empathetic

my point was sorta just you need to do a serious analysis of the problem

Your initial argument was that they were slaves and that it was bad and wrong to support that. The reality though is that if they weren't working there, many of them likely wouldn't be working. The Chinese government would likely not restructure unless there was another large revenue stream and those people would die

and that its sorta dangerous to just say. lets make sweet sweet money cause that's how to stay competitive

That's an oversimplification from someone asking for serious analysis

Oof

Kek

i just said that was one point of the issue

but the biggest point id make is that more profit now might hurt a country down the line

So whats the argument about so we stay in line?

In what way?

Compared to what also?

Talk about moving the goalposts. China's eagerness to starve its own people is an economic advantage to be exploited if we choose to trade with them, but a moral crisis if we choose not to trade with them?

No, I'm saying the moral argument against Chinese trade is nonsensical

Because the alternative to a shit job with no other options is no job

then why not Vietnam?

or misc. country

That's a false dilemma.

That was brought up earlier as well

For the Chinese to improve they must innovate

Look at the industrial revolution

They can get innovation through property aka patons

*rights

Thats the point of Made in China 2025

The alternative to a shitty job is a less shitty job if the environment for creating less shitty jobs exists.

?

Can you prove that such an environment exists?

They must innovate to get better jobs

The west isnt the problem

We don't have to prove that it exists, just that it's possible.

>36% of the Chinese working population is in sweatshops

Lolwut

what does that have to do with anything?

"We don't have to prove that an alternative for these people exists to make the moral argument that they shouldn't have the job they do"

🤔

what?

No economic policy will help China if they cant recognize human rights

@m1 devpav in charge of trying to salvage the moral argument

the moral argument is valid

It isn't

but its not the whole thing

That wasn't a moral argument, it was an economic theory argument.

both are valid

I you want to help China refer back to the industrial revolution

The only one making a moral argument is Beemann, in the bizarre claim that the poor Chinese people for some reason won't figure out what to do with themselves if their export sector shrinks.

I just want to trade with China if they can trade fairly. I have nothing against the Chinese people either, and view nobody above another. But if China cant help themselves to not steal IP, or for unfair business practices. I think it best we increase tariffs at the expense of lower profits to fix the systemic issue. And I think the EU needs to pick anything to do

>the only one making a moral argument is Beemann
M1 made it initially, with the slavery comment

And then said it's still valid lol

Gaslight harder

I would also consider Democrats in favor of slavery

@m1 By what standard is it moral to trade with the US or wherever you live

by importing the whole of S. America